Is Hell Forever?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 13 2006, 02:19 AM) [snapback]254636[/snapback]</div>

that's why I think you should submit them all. Give it a try just for the heck of it, you never know what they are going to pick. Even if your stories are true, they might even be a great marketing scheme for pharma companies

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ Apr 28 2006, 11:31 AM) [snapback]246676[/snapback]</div>

I concur. This overall is a correct depection of the business model behind Hell based on my experince and belief. Sigmund Freud in Civilization and Its Discontents pretty much put the whole religion thing in perspective for me. If you want to read a book about religion that is not open to polerizing interperation like all the biles that are aviable today I recommend Freud's work as a start.

 

Why is it that only the nut cases have seen supernatural events, and can offer nothing but their own testimony to support them? Six-year-old girls are known to squirm and writhe occasionally. It's called a tantrum. But as extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, I'd like something more than one person's assertion before I believe that she threw six burly men off of her.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fuelsipper @ May 12 2006, 11:29 PM) [snapback]254638[/snapback]</div>

Your life and you families lives is in the balances as to whether you are right.

You can say what you will.. that doesn't make or mean anything if reality doesn't confirm it.. or better yet, the creator doesn't confirm it...

Its not about your will and your opinion.. you didn't create anything.

So don't be a fool and try to speak things into being that don't exist and things you don't have the power to create or do anything with.

You don't even have power over your next breath unless its given you of God... so don't be so cocky.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 13 2006, 08:21 AM) [snapback]254730[/snapback]</div>

Well thats your opinion... from my viewpoint, anybody who can't even believe there is a god is pretty nutty and has no or little ability for rational logical reasoning.

A "nut" is someone who see the world different than everyone else.. I think your the one in the gross minority.. not me.

Do you really think so much of yourself and look down of people so much that you really think they are all nuts that believe in God and have seen and participated in miracles?

I don't blame you actually....
If I proclaimed myself to be an atheist, the reality of miracles from a real God would rattle me too.

Well get rattled... its real and God is real... What is real to you anyway?

 

This is sort of off topic, but that last couple of posts brought out a memory for me.

One of my friends was describing the time she went with a friend (high school, I think, though maybe earlier) to a bible healing weekend (or something like that) run by her friend's Southern Baptist Church. At one point, they had the healer come by and pull the evil out of each of them. Every girl that went before my friend gave a cry and fell to the ground as the healer shouted and prayed. She told me how disappointed she was that she didn't feel anything when he came to her. I asked her what she had done, and she looked at me like I was crazy and said, "I fell, of course, what was I supposed to do?"

::sigh::

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(geologyrox @ May 15 2006, 05:42 AM) [snapback]255592[/snapback]</div>

yea.. thats pretty stupid.. I agree....

Well all I can say is if I pastored a church, I would have "no catchers".. if you fall, it better be God, or be prepared to hit your head.

I've seen people fall "when Its God" and they hit thier head on chairs, concrete etc and absolutely nothing would happen to thier heads, no pain, no nothing... its was all supernatural.

But on the other hand I've seen many people fake under peer pressure.

churches have catchers to prevent law suits... too bad so sad..... if you "fake" being healed from God, hitting your head on the ground is the least of your worries.

Maybe if the churches didn't have "catchers" (people who catch you when you fall), there would be less of that.....

You're right, all that does is make it bad for the non believers.... I hope she was ashamed of herself for faking. :angry:

People are flaky and they love attention.

Why do you think Ananias and Saphiras did what they did?

(Acts 5:1 KJV) But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
(Acts 5:2 KJV) And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it, at the apostles' feet.
(Acts 5:3 KJV) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
(Acts 5:4 KJV) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
(Acts 5:5 KJV) And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
(Acts 5:6 KJV) And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

 

Daniel, Daniel!

You talked about the camel going through the eye of a needle?

Well, the "eye of the needle" is speaking about the entrance through the walls that surrounded the city Jerusalem.
These were like slits in the walls. Tall and very narrow, and well guarded.

Camels were very well loaded down with buldging packages, bags, or whatever you want to call them; on both sides of the animal's body.

Hence, if it was after dark, they would not open the gates to let the animal pass and it's owner in because of the chance of attacking enemies. But if one really wanted to come in and out of the city at that time of night, then the owner of said camel would have to unload the baggage that the camel was carrying in order for the animal to pass through the wall and into the city.

Likewise, many people have a 'LOT OF BAGGAGE' which must be unloaded before they will even come into the kingdom of God.

Make no mistake about it, the kingdom of God is the rule and reign of God in a person's life.

Jesus talks about the kingdom of God, not being drink or meat, in other words-materialistic possessions, but the kingdom of God is peace, (peace with God), righteouness, (knowing that you are in right standing with God), and joy, (because of having peace with God), which only comes by the power of the Holy Spirit, which is God's own spirit given to live inside a person by that person's own consent. That is what is known as being "BORN AGAIN".

Having the Holy Spirit of God living within a person.

Hope this helps.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ Mar 4 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]400028[/snapback]</div>

In other words, you are not a Bible literalist: You believe you can take Jesus's words and make them mean whatever you like. I've encountered this sort of "Christian" before: A friend of mine was in the habit of saying that none of Jesus's sayings could be taken at face value, because he spoke in parables. (And I've heard your version of the camel more times than I can count.)

The problem is that every time Jesus tells a parable, he explains it.

But he did not explain away the camel thing. In fact, he was constantly reprimanding rich people and standing up for the poor; constantly telling rich folks to give away everything they have; telling people they should give no thought to tomorrow; that they should not hoard riches on Earth; that if they had two shirts they should give one away. Two shirts was too much "property" if you wanted to follow him!!! If two lousy shirts was too much, what would he say about a bank account and a computer and a $20 a month dial-up subscription, much less a $50 a month broadband subscription, while children in Africa are starving???

Sorry, pal. If you believe in Jesus, then you and I and everyone else here on Prius Chat are going straight to the fires of hell, without passing Go or collecting two hundred dollars.

But then, on the other hand, Jesus also made it clear that he believed the End was going to come within his own generation, so he obviously had a screw loose.

I respect Jesus, though, for inventing communism. The only thing Karl Marx did was to take god out of it, which was an improvement, but didn't require all that much effort. The real credit for Marxism really belongs to Jesus. Crazy people are sometimes very creative and insightful that way, so I overlook his insanity and I respect him deeply.

 

This is not so off-topic. Hell in the Bible refers to Gehenna - originally a garbage dump outside Jerusaleum known as Valley of Hinnom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Mar 4 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]400067[/snapback]</div>

What I find amusing is that Bible literalists cannot agree among themselves whether there is a place of eternal torment or not: Both Seventh-Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses say there is not. And both groups are literalists who expend a great deal of time and energy studying the Bible.

I'm not sure what the theological consequences would be of hell being a literal garbage dump.

 

Nothing is forever.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 30 2006, 11:17 AM) [snapback]247569[/snapback]</div>

Nice to hear from a well adjusted person, thank you Larkin.

A related saying my uncle had on the refrigerator in the 60's..."Heaven is now, Hell is not knowing it"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 4 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]400060[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, your a smart guy... but interpretation of scripture is not private to be construed as anyone wishes.
When they were spoken, it was with a specific message in mind.

Jesus's statement about "this generation" was not "his" generation.... he was using the rebirthing of Israel into a nation as the beginning of that generation... so yes.. it could happen any time now.

(Mat 24:32 NKJV) "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
(Mat 24:33 NKJV) "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near; at the doors!
(Mat 24:34 NKJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The nation of Israel is the fig tree.

<span style="color:#000000">(Mark 13:22 NKJV) "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(Mark 13:23 NKJV) "But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
(Mark 13:24 NKJV) "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
(Mark 13:25 NKJV) "the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
(Mark 13:26 NKJV) "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Mark 13:27 NKJV) "And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
(Mark 13:28 NKJV) "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
(Mark 13:29 NKJV) "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near; at the doors!
(Mark 13:30 NKJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

</span>If you choose not to believe scripture.. thats one thing, but when people imply that they have an interpretation that is correct that makes Jesus look like a fool.. that only makes them look foolish and unlearned.





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fuelsipper @ Mar 4 2007, 09:00 PM) [snapback]400106[/snapback]</div>

Neither is true...

that statement says this is heaven and hell to those who don't know it?

Surely logic itself will even condemn such a foolish statement.

We consider an Ostrich a foolish bird since it sticks its head in the sand to escape its danger as it thinks if it just doesn't see it, it doesn't exist.

I see little difference in that logic of the dumb bird verses saying this is heaven or hell..... denying both exists allows one to not fear the afterlife... which is real.... you will live forever somewhere.. your an eternal being made in the image of God.
Believe what you want, that doesn't make it reality.

 

To quote from the Principia Discordia, Hell is a place reserved for those who believe you'll go there for not believing in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 4 2007, 10:17 PM) [snapback]400141[/snapback]</div>

That seems to defy logic too......

The only people that go to hell would be the ones that believe in it and the ones that don't won't.. its back to the head in the sand religion again?

Most of the philosophers of this world that came us with most of the crap that confused man seemed to be thinkers that thought so hard they couldn't think.....

 

Hell is owning a Hummer ... Heaven is owning a Prius !!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]400113[/snapback]</div>

Ah, I see: It can only be construed as you wish? And what, pray tell, makes your interpretation more valid than mine? Especially when, in this particular instance, I am taking the literal reading, while you, the Bible literalist, are insisting on an allegorical interpretation?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]400113[/snapback]</div>

If there were an Olympic event in mental gymnastics, you folks would take the gold medal. Jesus was an apocalypticist: He believed the end of the world was imminent, and everything he did and taught was predicated on that belief.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]400113[/snapback]</div>

Jesus was not a fool. But he was delusional and seriously insane.

Lots of crazy people are neither foolish nor stupid. I had a very good friend in Mexico who was extremely mentally ill. She took lithium for bipolar disorder and had been in the mental hospital once or twice before I met her, and twice more during the time I knew her, while I lived in Mexico, and I heard from a mutual friend that she was in again after I had left Mexico. But she was very intelligent, and a really remarkable poet.

 

And the reward for believers might be an unlimited supply of your favorite muffin without the worry of added weight gain or other health side effects.

 

Ooh, Muffinism! There's a religion *I* could believe in!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 4 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]400169[/snapback]</div>

I believe you've described yourself perfectly in this statement. You're not an idiot but you are one of the saddest people I've ever seen. You want to sterilize everyone, god doesn't exist, etc. Just wondering what do you even want to live for?

Seriously, not an attack what's the point of getting up in the morning thinking that when you die there is no salvation, no afterlife, no nothing? From your view life is just a complete meaningless waste of time with no rewards. Live for the moment? OK, but what does that matter when you're gone...especially since there won't even be anyone left to remember you ever lived?

As far as the Scriptures they ARE open to some interpretation, certain parts are not, why do you think there are so many branches of Christianity. There is also some room for personal interpretation as long as it follows the overall teachings, it depends on your calling.

Your end of the world statement is stupid, when Jesus returns he will bring salvation to all who are faithful and take them to a better place, yes I'm sure you can find "quotes" in the bible to support your statement but Jesus will bring salvation not the end.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are a pathetic coward. You're are attacking a book that was put together from writings dating back thousands of years, from many different people. You've taken the easy road on this one considering any 5th grader could do what you are doing on a "literal" context since there are no actual witnesses left.

As always you should be proud of yourself for wasting people's time like mine who can't resist replying to your dribble.