New Traction battery video from Dr. Kelly

Thanks @mva

 

I wonder if it would have made any difference if the Gen 5 Prime pack got one more stack / bank of cells pushing it up to 15 kW.

 

when i say... most on this forum haven't a clue about these batteries and what can be done... this video for those who are thinkers should prove a lot of what they've said cant be done... actually can!

 

We've all been waiting patiently for years for that big battery break through. Something that can deliver the power to weight ratio similar to liquid fuels. Until then, we are stuck between electric and fueled vehicles. Neither one is ideal. That's why hybrids still exist.

 

There are enough that actually know a lot about these cars. Than there are the ones that get most of their info from the red pages, both legit and hype.

Professor Kelly helps so many with keeping up with new features for those that are interested as can be seen in the video @mva provided the link to in the OP post.
And one very nice aspect about his approach IMO is that he doesn't make any claims that he is the last word about what he knows, and makes that clear when there are gaps in the OEM data he has access to.

 

huh.. if you compare the size to capacity of the first Rav4 EV battery to the bz4x battery than count the years, you'll see we've come a very long way and to some that the breakthrough! heh. When I first heard of the 2013 PIP, my first thought while others complained of the low EV miles was... "I cant wait to upgrade those cells".

you see, this is why I get excited when new hybrid tech comes out, with each generation they improve and opens the door for the older generations to upgrade. gosh, I cant wait to get my hands on a 2nd or 3rd Gen Highlander... can you imagine swapping the rear motor for a larger one, then the hv battery as well? Or even the LS600hl engine and CVT... ohhh lawd! no one has realized what I have, its possible because no one has 3D scanned motors and parts at dismantlers and engine retailers... but I have.

 

I'm impressed with your logic; "batteries have improved quite a lot, so they are just as good as liquid fuels."
Gottit.

 

I’ll take that as a compliment, even if it was wrapped in a little sarcasm burrito

But real talk: I never said batteries are already as good as liquid fuels — I’m just pointing out how fast they’re catching up. The breakthroughs are stacking, and it’s not wild to imagine a near future where energy density, weight, and integration get us close enough that the old "EVs can't compete" argument starts falling apart.

I mean… if you blink too long, someone like me might’ve already crammed an LS600h drivetrain and a 50kWh pack into something you least expect. Then what?

Progress waits for no one.

 

Well, actually,,,
I think you meant to say 'That's why PHEV's exist'. Plug-In Hybrids.

A hybrid is just another Gasser. A 'fueled' vehicle.
A slightly more efficient gasser. Maybe 20% more efficient than the gasser version.?

 

All electric vehicles (especially aircraft) fall short on energy density compared to liquid fuels. The only other non-polluting alternative is hydrogen, but it has its own set of problems.

 

Gasoline's 'usable at the wheel'² energy is:
~2.7 Wh/g, and;
~2.0 Wh/mL

NMC Lithium's 'usable at the wheel'³ energy is:
~0.2 Wh/g, and;
~0.5 Wh/mL

In other words, gasoline is 13x lighter and 4x more compact than even the best lithium cells. Put another way, 10 gallons of gasoline weighs only 60 pounds, and yet it stores the same usable energy as an 1100 pound lithium pack. Gasoline's high energy content is the primary reason I support PHEVs over fully electric vehicles. Unfortunately, EVs have won the court of public opinion.

²The actual gasoline energy content is ~8.3 Wh/mL (11.2 Wh/g). However, ~75% of this energy is lost during the conversion process (inside the engine). The numbers above represent the approximate energy gasoline delivers to the wheels.

³Lithium's round trip efficiency exceeds 90% in nearly all cases.

 

In other words: when I travel, I would rather take a couple of 5 gallon fuel cans with me, weighing 60 pounds, and drive an extra 500 miles than add another battery that weighs four times as much (250 pounds) and drive 50 miles.

The fuel used will reduce the overall weight of the car as it is used up, and the battery will always add to the overall weight of the car, even when it is dead, it is "dead" weight.

 

EVs 'won' because they are cheaper to design, and PHEVs got some bad press from when they were used solely as hybrids.

 

That's because,,, We have to stop burning stuff.
That's not a public opinion. Just a scientific fact.

 

There are very few non-combustion methods for generating electricity.

There are very few effective and safe ones.

And among the combustion methods, the most effective is the combustion of gasoline.

The only difference is that burning gasoline in a car allows the driver to participate in this combustion personally.

The annual average amounts of coal, natural gas, and petroleum fuels used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity by U.S. electric utilities and independent power producers in 2022 were:

• Natural gas–7.42 cubic feet/kWh
• Coal–1.14 pounds/kWh
• Petroleum coke–0.85 pounds/kWh
• Petroleum liquids–0.08 gallons/kWh

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

It would be interesting to know what the cost and energy consumption are for producing one battery for a hybrid car.

 

Burning fuel in a car is less efficient than in a power plant. Current Prius engine is 41% thermally efficient. Future gasoline engines will reach 50%. Natural gas CCGT plants can reach >60% today, and their duty cycle means staying near peak efficiency for longer periods than a car engine. A cogen plant providing heat will reach over 90% efficiency.

The renewable portion of US electricity generation has been steadily growing. It produces more than coal since 2020. The fossil fuel portion has been slowly going down. It has mostly been a shift from coal to natural gas, which is more efficient and burns cleaner. Petroleum is a tiny player. It is mostly used in Hawaii and remote areas of Alaska. Hawaii can easily shift away from it.

Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Wind and solar are very effective power sources, with several options for energy storage to make up for their time of production limits. Nuclear plants are fine option to back them up in the 'stop burning stuff' goal. NG plants could be fueled by e-fuels as energy storage until large scale fuel cells become practical.

A BEV takes more energy to make vs an ICE car. Its total GHG emissions will better that ICE model in 3 to 5 years of use on the US grid. Hybrids, plug or not, fall in between.

 

1. There are many. Do you have the same web access as the rest of us?
2. Can you name all of the 'unsafe' sustainable energy sources?
3."effective is the combustion of gasoline." Yes, burning fossil fuels have been 'effective' at moving stuff on land, sea, and the air.
And they have been part of electricity production for over a century.
And the effect is a global rise in CO².

This is what is in the recipe of my local electric grid:

You can see what yours looks like here: Power Profiler | US EPA

As always, you can't make gasoline on your roof top.
I drive my EV for less than 1 penny per mile when I charge at night.

The world is changing old boy.....

 

I can well admit that in some countries it is relevant and possibly profitable to produce electricity from solar rays or wind energy, but the globe consists of six continents, five of which have many countries where electricity is produced almost exclusively from coal or oil.
Japan, not having large reserves of natural resources, has relied on nuclear power plants. After Fukushima, when an entire city was forced to evacuate, the Japanese attitude towards the atom changed. I would not want to live near a nuclear power plant even within a 500-mile radius.
The use of electricity with the replacement of cars running on gasoline by all mankind will set the goal of having a billion high-capacity batteries. It is difficult to say whether this will be feasible in the near future or not. But the production of high-capacity batteries is also not the smell of roses from the garden.
What is worse: carbon monoxide or chemical compounds of various toxic metals, which will saturate the regions with production.
Over time, this issue will be resolved primarily by the economy. If it becomes more profitable to travel around the globe on electric carriages, then so be it.