Exhaust with white smoke, looking for fire

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by AmericanIdiot, Feb 18, 2025 at 1:02 AM.

  1. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    I have a 2007 Prius (base) with 211k miles on it.

    I recently noticed heavy white smoke from my exhaust, especially on the first start of the day. I know that this usually is a signal of a blown head gasket, but I haven't had any of the other common symptoms of a head gasket leak. Specifically:
    • No need to refill coolant
    • No milky white oil on dip stick
    • No misfires
    • No overheating (temp is always around 180F according to Hybrid Assistant app)

    The symptoms I do have are:
    • Heavy white smoke (as mentioned before)
    • Occasional oil burning (maybe half a quart every few thousand miles, sometimes none). I'm using Valvoline Restore & Protect to see if there's magic dust to fix the oil leak
    • Occasional engine shuddering when engaging/disengaging the ICE (usually around 30-35mph) and sometimes during turning off the car
    At 200k miles (July 2024) I did the following maintenance:
    • Oil change - new filter (OEM filter) , Valvoline Restore & Protect 5W-30
    • PCV valve replacement (OEM part, trying to address the oil consumption issue)
    • Throttle body clean (Throttle body cleaner spray)
    • MAF sensor clean (MAF sensor cleaner spray)
    • Drain & fill engine coolant (SLLC)
    • Drain & fill inverter coolant (SLLC)
    • Drain & fill hybrid transaxle fluid (ATF WS)
    • Replaced spark plugs (Denso, iridium)
    I am pretty confident I did the engine coolant correctly and also bled the system of any air. Honestly, I didn't even know there was anything wrong with the car because I'm still getting 45.0 mpg and other than the occasional engine shuddering, which I attributed to regular wear and tear and the oil consumption, I was happily driving it.

    One thing I did today was try to confirm if there was a head gasket leak by attaching a coolant reservoir to the radiator and running the engine. I only saw bubbles when I pushed the engine to 2500 rpm and it was only a few of them. At regular idle speeds (800-1200rpm) I didn't see any bubbles. I will do a pressure test tomorrow.

    So I'm guessing I'm in the beginning stages of a failed head gasket? Could it be something else? If it is a failed head gasket, what do people recommend doing? Fixing it? Replacing the engine with a refurbed? Using magic head gasket solutions (Blue Devil)? Or is it time to hang up my Prius? :(

    I also plan on getting a Pre-Purchase Inspection so I know if there's anything else that may be wrong with the car before I decide on what, if any, repairs I'll be doing on it.

    Thanks for your incoming wisdom and guidance!
     
    #1 AmericanIdiot, Feb 18, 2025 at 1:02 AM
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2025 at 1:07 AM
  2. MAX2

    MAX2 Active Member

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    Prius Gen2 with 211k miles is almost a youth. Is the catalytic converter original?
    It is better to check the coolant leak into the cylinders with a borescope in the morning before starting the car through the spark plug wells.
     
  3. MCCOHENS

    MCCOHENS Member

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    White smoke when cold is typical in the winter, if you are somewhere cold. Head gasket failure smokes all the time. Your oil consumption is well within normal for a car that old. You have done all the maintenance stuff, maybe the air filter could be replaced but that would not cause shuddering. Just drive it and relax. And PLEASE don't take it to a dealer, you will regret it.
     
  4. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Probably nothing wrong with your car I would just drive it I don't know where you're located We shouldn't have much into it so I wouldn't be looking for trouble getting 45 miles to the gallon on occasional shutter and stutter has anybody looked at any of the freeze frame data for this car That's a good place to start sounds like you don't need a whole lot of work looks like you're up on oil changes transmission stuff brakes brake actuator comes to mind around this mileage stuff like that The car's general condition is good to better I wouldn't worry about a thing It doesn't sound like it's anything that's going to leave you stranded If you're burning coolant and or oil standing behind the car while the smoking is happening should produce the smell of the substance that's burning coolant is almost unmistakable and oil oil that should be too You don't forget it once you smell it white smoke coming out of the back of a generation 2 Prius with this kind of mileage in the winter I would say is not really problematic You're not making a cloud that people can't see through.
     
  5. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Keep an eye on fluid levels and see how things progress.

    First sign of a head gasket coolant leak is (minor) engine misfire on cold start. Then it goes to noticing coolant loss, white tailpipe smoke, overheating, etc.

    A major fuel injector fault can cause white smoke but it's also going to have misfires, bad mpg, etc.

    Since I assume it's not "normal" water vapor, then the only thing left is oil. Either a (serious) piston ring problem or PCV is pulling (more than normal) oil.

    You could pull and check the plugs for oil fouling. If available use a videoscope to look in the cylinders for oil pooling on a piston.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  6. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    Yeah the cat is original. It's protected by a shield. I'll run a block test later today with the engine warm/hot. This should be definitive about a head gasket leak. If the block test says there's a blown head gasket, I'll scope it tomorrow to see which cylinder has coolant leaking into it.

    I'm in southern CA so "cold" here is 70F. Even on a small leak? I was able to get small bubbles (0.25inches) when I pushed my RPM to 2500 for a few minutes. Not many, but some.

    Haven't looked at the freeze frame data - what should I be looking for? I'm good about the maintenance. I have been paying attention to the brake system a little bit. I've done the mini test where I open the driver door and hear the brake accumulator (or actuator?) pressurize the brake system. It seems to be able to hold the pressure and it takes some time for it to run again.


    Yeah, so far the only thing is the white smoke.

    I think I have a couple things to test:
    1. Block test / Combustion leak detector (this should be definitive)
    2. Pressure test the cooling system / scope the cylinders (to see if/where the leak is depending on above)
    3. Compression test (since the plugs will be out anyway)
    I'll report back what I find.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    This is like being a little pregnant.

    A positive is definitive; a negative is not. A borescope with a pressurized coolant system is needed if you get a negative.

    No cold morning water vapor there.

    Your best hope is excessive oil burning is causing the white smoke. However the reason everyone steals gen2 cats is they are expensive and are very effective in eliminating hydrocarbon emissions at the tailpipe without using an egr system.

    If it is burnt oil you are seeing it might be valve seals dumping oil into the cylinders overnight with a cold start burning so much it overwhelms the cats. Oil burning from rings is unlikely to get past the cats.
     
    #7 rjparker, Feb 18, 2025 at 1:32 PM
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2025 at 1:40 PM
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  8. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Are you sure the smoke is white? Worn valve seals drip oil into the cylinder(s) when the car is off, and when it is turned back on it smokes briefly. Typically that is a little grey or blue, but maybe the super powerful 2nd generation cat takes the color out of it? On many cars there are tricks for putting new seals on the valves without having to pull the head. If this is really the problem here, and there is no such trick for this car, then it might as well be a blown head gasket, because the head would then have to come off either way.

    Do you have a borescope? Looking into the cylinders after the car has sat overnight while the coolant system is under pressure should be informative. Either you will see oil in there before pressure is applied, or you will see coolant dripping in after it is. Also the state of the spark plugs is of interest.

    It actually does get cold enough in SoCal to see white condensation from the exhaust. But only just, more of a wisp than a cloud, and only on particularly cold morrnings. Of which we have fewer and fewer each year.
     
  9. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    Here are the results from today:

    Block test / Combustion leak detector: Negative (the water stayed blue)

    Pressure test: Failed.. the system isn't holding any pressure. The manual says that the max pressure is 25psi, but as I try to pressurize the system, the pressure drops. Even worse, the white smoke coming out of the exhaust is pretty at that pressure.

    So it's pretty much confirmed that it's a blown head gasket?
     
  10. MAX2

    MAX2 Active Member

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    In the summer my Gen2 smoked blue smoke... after I used dimethyl sulfoxide to decarbonize the engine system.

    In addition to the blue smoke, there was a characteristic smell of garlic.

    It is strange that the author of the topic does not mention the smell of exhaust smoke, he could explain a lot.

    This is roughly how the smoke came out of the exhaust

     
    #10 MAX2, Feb 18, 2025 at 11:52 PM
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2025 at 12:05 AM
  11. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    My nose is terrible. I don't notice any particular smell. I've read it's supposed to smell sweet if it's coolant, but I haven't noticed that.
     
  12. MAX2

    MAX2 Active Member

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    This could be a consequence of Covid. I also lost the ability to taste and smell for about a year and a half.
     
  13. MCCOHENS

    MCCOHENS Member

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    Sounds like a head gasket. If you are using an antifreeze/water mix the exhaust should smell sweet but the pressure test is probably more accurate.
     
  14. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Where is this Max that shipping container and whatnot You out in Oregon?
     
  15. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    I pressure test the system - 15psi is plenty. Often leave it pressurized overnight. Pull the plugs and look in the cylinders (lots of videoscopes on amazon).

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  16. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    And he said he can't get any pressure at all like pump up and the gauge just goes down I guess like immediately while he's watching it with something like that going on I would think with the spark plugs out and your friend pumping on the pump and you holding a tube in each cylinder hole one by one listening with your ear in each cylinder hole through the spark plug You would almost hear that much air escaping or if you blow through it with your air compressor set at 8 for 10 PSI and you're 100 ft from the compressor with your air hose length You should be able to hear that air running out of wherever it's running out of at that kind of pressure I would think That's a pretty serious gap. Makes me wonder if that's really a head gasket or if you're pushing air past the hose fitting or something of course I haven't spent a lot of time listening and messing with head gaskets like this but that seems like an awful lot of pressure vanishing before it can even start to build up It's like you're blowing your air right into the atmosphere That's surely is one hell of a head gasket leak for a one NZ engine not to say it can't be but that's a good one
     
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  17. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Damaged cooling system testers are pretty common if they are rentals from the car parts places. People tend to not be so careful with other's tools.

    However, when the cooling system is pressurized:

    which I think means the amount of smoke increases with pressure. That is almost certainly a blown head gasket or, less likely, a crack in the block or head to the water jacket. I guess it doesn't smoke all the time because when it heats up something expands enough to choke off the leak, and here the car is running cold.
     
  18. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    Just reporting back.

    For the pressure test, I'm not sure I performed it correctly to be honest. I slept on it and that helped me clear my head a bit. So with the pressure test, the rental kit didn't have the correct radiator neck adapter and so I'm not sure I achieved a solid seal to pressurize the system, so that result may be invalid.

    To simpler things that I think I can understand, I scoped the cylinders this morning. If you're standing in front of the car, the cylinders are in order from left to right. Sorry I don't have better images for cylinders 2 and 3. The plugs didn't look great considering it's been <20k miles. The spark plug from cylinder #2 looked wet. Sorry I didn't take pictures of the spark plugs, but I can pull them again if needed. The most notable finding was the image of cylinder #4 where it looks like the "steam cleaning" process has begun. The top of the image has missing carbon deposits, so I guess that's as good as a confirmation as we're going to get? We have consensus that it's definitely a blown head gasket? Is there anything else I should look at?

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The next question is what to do? My plan is:
    1. Test the HV battery with the Dr. Prius app and see if that thing is healthy or about to go.
    2. A - If the HV battery is healthy, get a pre-purchase inspection to see if there are any other potential problems with the car.
      B - If the HV battery is on it's way out, try head gasket sealer (recommendations accepted, I currently have a bottle of K-Seal)
    3. A - If the pre-purchase inspection finds other things wrong, try head gasket sealer.
      B - If the car is otherwise fine, get quotes for JDM engine and replacement. I'm guessing, I should do the water pump while the guys are in there?
    Does that sound reasonable? Am I missing anything?

    I really appreciate the knowledge shared here with me. It's pretty awesome. Thanks!
     
  19. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    It doesn't seem to me like that's a lot of cleaning going on by steam that actually looks pretty reasonable for the top of a reasonable mileage one NZ if I'm not mistaken. What you want to do is get the camera to look back up at the gasket surface so you can see the water droplets if they're there especially with pressure pumped up even with it out pumped up early in the morning non-started nothing plugs already out waterfall You should see droplets forming where the gasket mating surfaces are for the head gasket which is down in the boar and looking back up lots of cameras can do this now they're not that expensive I wouldn't imagine it AutoZone would have that feature but there you go but you got white smoke and you're losing some coolant and all this and that so it's a pretty good guess that you've got some head gasket seepage going on how much don't know probably can keep driving for a good while You're doing all this work to determine whether you're going to fix it if the hybrid battery is good and all these other parameters are met screw that I just keep driving it until the smoke becomes well dangerous like people can't see and if you're in California the vehicle enforcement people tell you hey man you got to do something about that Yes I sure do thank you that might be another year or two Just saying
     
  20. AmericanIdiot

    AmericanIdiot Junior Member

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    I guess one complicating factor is that I've been trying out Valvoline Restore & Protect which is supposed clean out carbon deposits and free up the piston rings. I don't suppose it's working *that* good, but it might be a factor? Maybe Val R&P + head gasket leak = some cleaning? It's looks quite different from the other 3 heads.

    Yeah, I don't have one of those fancy articulating borescopes, although I might order one.

    Any thoughts on head gasket sealer? Dump it in, wait for it to seal and then flush the coolant?