1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I think rj and I both cropped our diagram clippings so you didn't really see how "IGF" is a simple wired-OR of all four igniters' IGF outputs, but yes, that's how it is. Meanwhile, of course, there are really four separate ECM outputs IGT1 though IGT4, and the scope trace is just showing one of them.
     
  2. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    If you are comparing two devices with exactly the same shape than weight would tell you which has more metal, but not which has more copper. Densities: iron = 7.9, copper = 9.0, plastic =~ 1. Iron is much less expensive than copper. Current scrap metal prices are around $3/lb for copper and $0.05/lb for steel. (Couldn't find "iron".) So if a company is making a cheap part but want it to feel hefty it costs them next to nothing to increase the size of the iron core. Adding more copper costs around 60X more to achieve the same weight addition. So really light would be bad, but heavy isn't necessarily good.

    Make friends with an X-ray tech at a lab or a hospital. Very easy for them to take a quick picture, and then you could see what was on the inside. Probably cost a fortune to send one off to a commercial service to have this done. In fact, probably cheaper to buy one, remove all the plastic (hammer, solvent, whatever), and then examine what was inside.

    Anybody know what the winding ratios are between the primary and secondary coils on one of these devices?
     
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    You're 100% entirely over-thinking this! The cheap price is more than incentive enough. Nobody is going to make their super cheap ignition coils heavier to fool anyone... All I'm saying is that I've replaced way more lighter aftermarket ignition coils than heavier ones. Also copper windings are standard in electricity, especially ignition coils. Do you have any example of substantial electrical windings that aren't made of copper?
     
  4. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    I didn't mean to suggest that use here. Just that the iron core was very dense too and so the density of the device was not just a matter of plastic and copper.

    But since you asked...

    Large high voltage transformers use aluminum wire. (Electrical transmission lines are also usually aluminum, but not wound in coils when in use, so not relevant.) Resistors are usually coils of nichrome wire, but does that count as wound? Small (in this case best read as "not enormous") wound wire coils in transformers and such are usually copper although some are apparently copper clad aluminum. The latter wire is lighter, cheaper, but apparently not as durable. Those devices will look like they are wound with just copper, since the aluminum is hidden inside the wire. CERN has an insane amount of Niobium Titanium wire in its collider's superconducting magnets, and that wire is also used in MRI machines. Those are really specialized applications. Also that wire is stupid expensive, something like $100/lb, which is ~20X what copper costs.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I don't, but here's a lot of measurements somebody could make if they wanted to bash one open for access to the coil terminals:

    My Electric Engine - Coil Measurements
     
  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    You and others might be interested in Keith Nowak, a highly skilled rebuilder of all types of electric motors. He talks about all this stuff often in his videos. I've been fascinated with his posts for years. His Tik-tok posts are way more extensive than his Instagram and Youtube. This dude is regularly rebuidling motors as big as 700 horsepower. It's fascinating stuff that I enjoy late at night when I'm on Tiktok.

    https://www.instagram.com/keithnowak/

    Keith Nowak - YouTube

    TikTok - Keith Nowak
     
  8. Ozark_Mtn Prius

    Ozark_Mtn Prius New Member

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    Ok, so back to square one. Bought coils and injectors from Rock Auto. Installed Saturday, went for a test drive and all was good. Started to work today and could not go past 30 mph. Had to “feather” the accelerator and could not press down or it fell on its face. No codes and no check engine light yet, I’m at my wits end.
     
  9. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    What are you using to read codes? At this point you need something that can show you real time data. Also some code readers cannot show pending codes, or even talk to some of the Prius modules.

    This is almost certainly not it, but at least it is really quick. Open up the air filter box and make sure the filter is in good shape, oriented correctly, and doesn't have a rats nest or the like inside of it.

    Check the tire pressures. There is a report of the Prius having conniptions at exactly that speed if the front tires are larger than the rear, and it might appear that way if the pressures were wildly different:

    2004 prius to going over 30 mph | PriusChat