Number crunching

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Apr 22, 2022.

  1. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    The tilt angle of solar panels should be changed for best efficiency at different times of the year.
    In winter, the Sun does not rise high up and solar panels receive more energy at an angle of 80-90 degrees.
    That is, by installing the panels vertically, you will receive more energy and snow will not accumulate.


    In summer, the tilt angle of solar panels should be reduced to 30 degrees.
    Solar Angle Calculator | Solar Panel Angle Calculator
     
    #461 MAX2, Jan 14, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2025
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  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    What the heck is that white stuff?
    Sand????
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    While direction and azimuth are important for capturing max amount of seasonal sun rays, it is largely impractical to try chasing the sun for most home users. The commercially installed sun tracking system is expensive. And both commercial units and DIY frame like shown on the photo by @MAX2 are not suitable for large number of PV panels. I wonder what the cost would be to install dual axis Solar tracker for our system. The costs of tracking system hardware, location preparation, and installation have to be considered.

    By far, for rooftop installation, the direction and azimuth of the panels are unchangeable. Our roof does not face perfect South. And the pitch of the roof is not adjustable for season. The installer took those factors into estimation for the system performance. But I had a suspicion that most installers underestimated the annual production kWh to maximize the solar system size to profit more.

    The estimated kWh production by plugging in numbers on NREL site (PVWatts Calculator) gave me 17,927kWh annual production for the size and spec of the 15kW system I decided to install. Yet our installer gave an estimated annual production of 13,382kWh from the 15kW system they installed using their estimator. That's over 30% "underestimated" from NREL number. Since, I started a year 2025 with the system in operation, it will be very interesting to see what the system would end up generating for the entire year. Would it be closer to 13,382kWh? Or more to 17,927kWh?

    While I want the fastest payback period. More electricity generated by the system than I can use does not necessary shorten the payback. For our state Net-Meter billing, there is no buy back of surplus, only credit for future usage that expires after 12 months in rolling base. So, having huge surplus of credit does not contribute to the ROI. Historically, we use ~14,000kWh of electricity annually or ~1,166kWh/mo average. Monthly fluctuation is minimal in our household. If the installer estimated annual 13,382kWh production is distributed evenly throughout the year, the monthly production would be 1,115kWh/mo. This is THE PERFECT production rate for us. I would end up paying for monthly electric bill for 51kWh (1166-1115=51) which would be ~$15 at our current rate ($0.30/kWh). But if the solar production exceed the monthly usage so that credit covers total kWh used, then we actually ends up paying $21 for 0kWh electricity for the minimal service fees imposed on the account.

    I will be keeping a log of all those numbers and will have to do the end-of-the-year ROI assessment. I need more data!
     
    #463 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2025
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    And it should stay fixed for best reliability and safety concerns.

    I'm not saying either way is absolutely correct- every application is different. Just pointing out that once you transition from "no moving parts" to "mass suspended on a hinge with position locks" and fancy stuff like that, you're changing the contents of both pro and con columns. No free lunch.

    When solar panels cost a fortune, it made more sense to do tracking mounts. Now it's far cheaper just to hang two panels at different angles, sum the output electrically and never spend a second dealing with a stuck gimbal or even remembering when it's time to shift the array.

    There has been a bunch of research into glass coatings and various devices to discourage snow accumulation, or to remove it after it has begun. I haven't investigated any because we are still in our first winter with the system and I've only lost a few hours of weak production to snow cover so far- the problem simply isn't worth a response yet.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Smartflower is one of those nifty cool products out there.
    [​IMG]

    It is a self contained and self cleaning suntracking unit. The company claims the 2.5kW system is effectively 4kW compared to typical fix mounted systems. At $27k though. it is about $10k more than my 5.2kW roof system. Plus, I don't have the yard space for it. You can take it with you in the event of having to move.

    There are options to include 6kWh to 13kWh of battery storage. Where it would make sense for it seems limited to me, but the company also sells a unit for directly charging an EV.

    The Solar Flower You Need to Experience — SmartFlower
    SmartFlower Solar Review: The True Cost of a Solar Flower | Solar.com

    On other news, I got a letter from the township last week. Electric rates are going up 16% this year, and might increase further. Sucks, but my pay off sped up.
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    ^ Nifty but yikes that's pricey, fully 3x what we paid per-watt.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Aye. Can only see it being worth it if space for more traditional systems is lacking. Maybe for a business that wants an art piece to draw eyes. For that case, the EV model's cost might not be bad when compared to tearing up pavement and sidewalk.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Latest electric bill is in, and as expected we have overrun our accumulated net-metering credits and we actually have to pay for some of the power we used in the past month.

    Oh bother.

    It'll be like this for a few months, until our power production increases and our electric load drops from reduced heating demand- those lines on the chart should cross again in March or April.

    Theoretically this will not happen next January, as we will be going in with a full year's worth of accumulated solar production behind us instead of only 8 months.
     
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  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Half of a month since my solar started generating, today was the coldest day this season. Day time high barely hit positive integer (in F). But the total generated was 30 kWh. That's almost our average daily kWh usage from the grid. A new record high so far. Apparently, as long as sun is shining, cold does not affect the generation. However, our PHEV barely made 24 miles on 11 kWh full charge (usually 37 miles). I must think better way to use the electron than feeding the PHEV in cold. LoL
     
    #470 Salamander_King, Jan 22, 2025 at 7:25 PM
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2025 at 9:41 PM
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's the hot days that will curb production.
     
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Is there any documented data on the PV efficiency decrease on hot days? I may have to Google it, but I wonder how much of a "hit" are we talking about at what temperature? And why?

    Edit to add: cursory search found plenty of references on this topic.
    Summary by AI.
    Key points about PV efficiency and temperature:
    Temperature coefficient:
    This is a key metric used to measure how much a solar panel's power output decreases with increasing temperature; a lower temperature coefficient indicates better performance in hot environments.
    Mechanism behind the decrease:
    As the temperature increases, the electrons within the solar cell gain more energy, making it harder for them to be collected and converted into electricity, resulting in power loss.
     
    #472 Salamander_King, Jan 22, 2025 at 9:48 PM
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2025 at 9:58 PM
  13. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    This is due to the increase in resistance in the semiconductor materials of the panels.
    On average, the efficiency of the panels decreases by 0.5-0.7% for every degree above the optimum temperature.
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks. Yes, I found many articles on this topic. I don't know the temperature coefficient spec on my panels, but they are rated 21.8% efficiency. The temp affecting the efficiency must be at the panel internal not the ambient air temp. I wonder how hot the panel gets under full sun, say when temp at 0F vs 70F on a calm day. From the reading, the optimum temp is usually set at 25C (77F). Does the efficiency drops from the optimum at lower temperature? We rarely get ambient temp above 80F even in mid summer, so heat is not likely to be the worst of enemy for the PV in our climate... But I don't know.
     
  15. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    Unfortunately, the temperature of the panels is always higher than the ambient temperature.
    The accumulating effect for heat accumulation is provided by the protective glass.
    The dark color at the base of the solar cells also provides more opportunities for heating relative to the reflective light object.
    Of course, this is better assessed with a thermometer in the warm season.
    Low temperatures in winter do not create problems.