Featured Practically No One Purchases the bZ4X*

And door dash.

 

The USA has had incentives in the past for hybrids, PHEVs, Hydrogen and fully electrified vehicles.
If anything, the Hydrogen incentives propped up Japan, not China.

A PHEV, used well, is a good way to limit your CO2 emissions. Poorly used (not charged) it is worse than an ICE vehicle.

 

Many plug-in owner in California use their vehicle for carpool lane access while never even considering to charge up.

 

Exactly, that is why I said 'well used'. I heard in Europe, many companies that used PHEVs as company vehicles found many employees never charged them.

 

½ the purpose of carpool lanes (besides reducing pollution) is to reduce the number of cars. Uncharged - solo plugins defeat both purposes because they add to congestion & still emit CO2
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I'll believe this when I can test it at the local dealer:

Here is a similar announcement:

Sad to say, both make claims I have yet to see in product.

Bob Wilson

 

Yet, Toyota brought them on to this BEV project, and make use of Subaru's X-mode trademark. Subaru was planning to go alone on an BEV.

This side chain stems from this statement, "Toyota claims more climate impact for less money & resources my using HEV & PHEV vehicles". What does this have to do with EV growth talk?

The EIA stats I link to include HEV and PHEV with EV growth.

As mentioned, PHEVs only work when used correctly. Many incentives didn't encourage plugging them in, and resulted in higher carbon emissions.

No one here is disputing they can't, or hybrids do, reduce emissions. I was pointing out that Toyota's above statement is driven by them not securing enough battery resources to support plug in growth If they were really felt it was the best way to reduce emissions, they would have expanded hybrid to aother models as originally planned.

The US is promoting low emission vehicles through CAFE and EPA Tier III emission limits. Hybrids no longer need the help do to those, and consumer acceptance now in place. The 'EV' tax credit's official name is New Clean Vehicle Tax Credit and includes PHEVs.

The final law for the credit doesn't have the union requirement.

Rare earth minerals aren't used in EV batteries. They are used in the electric motors. If there is any such propping up of China, hybrids work just as well for it.

Toyota didn't start it. The Japanese government started a decades long program with their auto industry to develop low emission vehicles. Basic research started back in the 1970s(around when Godzilla vs the Smog Monster came out). It culminated in the late 1990s(EV1 era) with lead acid and some NiMH BEVs.

Plus the Prius, which received incentives through this program. That and Japan's higher gas prices helped in the early stages of its history. Prius sales dropped with US gases here, but fuel prices remained high in Europe and Japan. Toyota slowly expanded hybrid models. I can't think of any 'rough times' they had with hybrids.

 

One may suppose the redeeming thing is that these are OTHER people saying what the manufacturers are saying. I'd like to at least hear it from THEIR lips before I give it a 2nd thought.
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batteries and motors will keep improving. ice has little room left

 

Yes, but ice with an army of well paid legislative lobbyists and an oil industry that gives orders to most of the world's armies combined with the agenda of continued growth in government subsidies as well as growth in oil production year over year goes a long way to ensure a future for ice no matter how fast it destroys the planet.

 

Taking a step back towards the thread topic...

Looking at this car that has been designed for nobody in particular and built as a half-step between the gas world and the EV world, it would be pretty fair to expect consumers to only accept it with a guaranteed "go-away" date and the fixed pricing to accompany it.

 

This seems overstated.
Norway makes a large share of its money through oil. The market share of EVs is over 90%.
BEVs through November had a 30% market share in China. Add in PHEVs and you get about 50%.

It may feel like the old guard has a lock on the world. They are definitely fighting it.
But if US companies want to sell more than a handful of cars to the world in a few years, they better have a plug

 

..... just not one like the OP's
subject matter
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@Tideland Prius has a plug?? Who knew? LOL

I would guess his family knows...

 

Dangerously bold statement, I love it!

It's already possible to build a machine that can turn sunlight CO2 and seawater into fuel fit for gasoline engines. Porsche did this to guarantee access to suitable fuels for classic Porsches. (And it could be argued that Porsche was only following the United States military, which always wants secure access to fuel, and pioneered some of these efforts)

The big downside to this is that it currently costs a lot per gallon.

But it could one day be competitively cheap, and then suddenly every car we've ever built is running on clean energy.

 

ok - now it's corrected to be more clear ... truncated thought is my strong point

(Tideland has an excellent EV)
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Or we kick the personal car habit? It’s a phenomenon that’s been around for about a hundred years. Something may come along, who knows.

 

Well here's one for the books. John came to the defense in his original thread stating multiple DC QC is better now, in that it can charge 4X instead of just 2X before throttling QC. (That's probably 800 miles to be safe - & then you're hosed)
Apparently there are cold weather QC issues as well.

https://support.toyota.com/s/article/bZ4X-Charging?language=en_US#:~:text=As%20temperatures%20decrease%20below%2050,4%20degrees%20Fahrenheit%20or%20below.

hard pass
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The room ICEs have is from working with motors and batteries.

The more likely outcome I see is that we get the fleet made of enough PHEVs that paying more for renewable gas is accepted cause most will be only filling the tank a few times a year.

Paris and other places are working on that. Don't see today's US doing so.

 

I like your read on it. $35/gallon gas isn't such a bad deal when you only need 25 gallons a year.