Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Oops, I had mistaken the 1000ppm climb preceding the ELI with total level. The rate of that climb in CO2 levels was quite fast in geological terms by some studies, which could have more bearing on the extinction than the total level. Not a cheery though as we might be adding CO2 at a faster rate.
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Far short of Venus conditions, there seem to be so many weird things that could happen that we wouldn't like.

    I'm about 37 ℃ inside. Organisms that live in me without hurting me (like the ones I count on when making yogurt) are well adapted to that temperature, while fewer organisms that are pathogenic grow well at that temperature.

    Hence, I can make yogurt just by letting it sit there overnight at a temperature a little warmer than that. It ends up happily teeming with the organisms I want. My kitchen conditions are far from any biosafety level, but whatever undesirable organisms may have gotten in there have been soundly outcompeted by the benign ones.

    If the pathogenic ones start getting adapted to environmental T closer and closer to that, I suspect it'll get harder to make safe yogurt—though that might not be the only way we'd notice.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    This was scenario for bad fungus in The Last of Us I think. TV series.

    Fungi in general are not thermophilic. Many bacteria are.

    Fungal diseases of crops might be slightly held back by not having evolved towards success in hot&drier. But as currently provided with monospecies 'Petri dishes', they might. This was a minor plot element in Interstellar.

    TV and movie writers are playing with this. Science researchers are working on this. Preparing crops for future conditions of climate and CO2 ought to be a very high priority.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Permian Extinction has several independent or interacting potential causes that are being investigated. Coal seams were probably burned by large volcanic events. Forests had big burns either from 'floor is lava' or fires from hot&dry. A large impactor may have hit. It was like a bad day raised to very high exponential pattern.

    Then and also after 62 million year ago removal of dinosaurs other than birds, vegetation recovery had a lot of ferns. Their spores are distinctive and preserve well in sediments. This is an untapped sci-fi scenario ...
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Public Service Announcement: Chew your food thoroughly before swallowing.

    Plants and mushrooms have several biopolymer 'coatings' that your and your bacterial helpers lack enzymes for. Teeth are the only way to open those up. If you were a bird you would swallow small stones for grinding. But I digress.

    One mushroom in China has colloquial name 'see you tomorrow'. I hope that needs no further explanation. Or, swallow corn kernels with minimal chewing and be on the lookout for ...

    Animal food products do not present this problem. Not advising to swallow large meat chunks, but they do digest more readily.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    tochatihu likes this.
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Los Angeles area wildfires have been in the news so many people have general idea of extent and damages so far. I will add a few points.

    Last week there were very hot and dry winds. This has presently subsided, but next week expected to increase again. So further spread of fires seems likely. Fire ignition causes are NOT presently known, but high winds downing power lines are suspected. That may not be known soon, or ever. Unusually high winds also disperse embers and keep aerial fire fighting equipment on the ground.

    2024 winter/spring were very wet in this area, leading to much vegetation growth. Since 2024 May, there has been less than 1 centimeter of rain in total, so vegetation was quite dry. Here are sparse woodlands (meaning trees are far apart) but mostly coastal chaparral. This is a naturally burning vegetation type, has undoubtedly burning uncountable times before. But recently, structures have been built extensively at these interfaces.

    Most in news have been houses of very rich people burning, but many more humble residences including rentals have been lost.

    Among the most terrible photos have been of rows of burnt out cars. People were following evacuation orders, but onto narrow jammed roads. Flames approached and people (were advised to) abandon their cars and continue on foot. Essentially, run/walk to the sea.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I may have said this before but ... all forests burn. Return times may be 20 years or > 200 years, but it is so. Burnt forests leave biochar in their soils, and that is very persistent. To my knowledge, no forest soil has been collected anywhere that did not contain biochar. Carbon 14 isotope provides knowledge of burn years and return times, but it is not always examined (expensive to do).

    Plant communities of smaller stature are probably just as flammable, but non-woody vegetation leaves behind tiny biochar, not easy to collect and analyze. So, not well demonstrated there.

    ==
    Take some steps back and imagine building a bonfire. It should have gaps for airflow; a dense pile of logs won't do. Now imagine a wooden residential structure without its cladding. Same dang thing. Wooden structures are inherently flammable by their (economical) design.

    Now imagine building your wood house near a more or less angry forest or savanna that will eventually send hot embers onto you. Burning your roof off allows hot-air exit that will pull in more oxygen. But maybe I digress.

    Where you wood build seems most important. How you build? Few make their places not bonfires-to-be.

    There persist a few large historically significant wooden structures on earth older than 200 years. Enormous efforts have kept them unburnt, as they do resemble bonfire pre assembly.

    ==
    There are ??? wooden structures with ??? annual risk of burning. Increased hazards from global climate change are often invoked, but it is not known that fire-return intervals are getting shorter. Wood burns, OK? It's a thing. Yet we do bonfire-stacking.

    ==
    I was invited to visit a (surviving the Cultural Revolution) Buddhist Monastery in somewhere, Yunnan Province. Built of wood. Folks there asked me how to protect it from fire? I asked them from what direction do strongest winds ever blow? In that direction, remove all trees from >100 meters. It is not effective to tell Buddhist Monks to cut their sacred forests, so we reached an impasse.

    .
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My Aunt lives in Los Angeles, far from the fires but the smoke blows everywhere.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    3 summers ago ... fires in the state of Washington would give you watery eyes & irritate throats in Montana. A bunch of us canceled camping trips due to it.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Photo of one such car showed rivulets of the once molten metal flowing away. Guessing they were once the aluminum engine block.
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    There's always a couple wacky folk that try to ride it out, not wanting to lose everything and thus risking their life. Some die in the attempt while others are successful. One such story was a fellow whose parents actually built the house in 1960 Pacific palisades. He describes seeing these vortices of Embers and feeling the power therein as he hosed himself & structure down. Heroic & stupid -
    Lots and lots of history in that area, Going Up In Smoke;

    Screenshot_2025-01-12-09-19-37-59_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
    .
     
    #2492 hill, Jan 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2025
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i guess they are all toast now
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    S Calif fires have 16 confirmed dead and 16 missing, last I heard.
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    From fire to water.

    Few readers may have ever wondered how long water remains in the atmosphere. First evaporated from oceans or terrestrial surfaces, then waft about, finally to fall again somewhere as rain or snow. This was worked out quite a long time ago as about 8 days on average.

    Today I saw a new publication reporting on a related phenomenon. Water taken by land plants from soil is later transpired from leaves. The global average time for that passage has been now found to be ...

    Eight days. The same! There is no reason for these to match but they do. Things like this really light up my day, even while so much trouble occurs elsewhere.

    ==
    Hydrology is really fun. Assemble data from disparate sources. Learn big planetary things without pesky chemistry or biology to worry about. Well, not all that much.

    ==
    Average water residence times in humans is simple to estimate. Daily input from all sources equals daily output by all pathways. If not equal, you are getting the bloats or getting dehydrated. Water inside is 60 ish % of total body weight. Divide that big number by either of those smaller (equal) numbers, and you have residence the time. Let's say 4 liters/day input (which is probably high on average) and 44 kilos on storage. Such a person has residence time of 11 days.

    If your particulars lead to 16 days, you may with justification take the name of Johnny Two Clouds. Or Two Trees.

    ==

    The average animal is much smaller, there being so frickin many ants etc. So the average residence time of water in animals just might be 8 days and add another coincidence to our list.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Here is a detailed look at conditions before and during Los Angeles area fires:

    Climate Change A Factor In Unprecedented LA Fires | Sustainable LA Grand Challenge
    Quite long. Included information on preceding wet years followed by very dry half year. High T meant low fuel moisture. Very unusually high wind speeds for spreading, etc.

    This study attributes a quantified fraction to climate change. This will make some people angry that a fight is being lost. It will make other people angry for being warned of sky falling.

    Is is possible to present quantified information like this without making either group angry? I don't know.

    Some of their data is shown as probability distributions, with this situation being extreme in each. I think they should present all as probability distributions. Then the point is "All of these extremes came along at the same time. Climate changes brings more extremes. It is no longer reasonable to suppose these are unrelated." Or something like that.

    ==
    Further technical note. Figure 2 shows '1000-hour fuels" this refers to wood from 8 to 20 cm in diameter. It means it takes about 1000 hours of very dry conditions to make such wood easy to ignite. The new growth from preceding dry years is smaller stuff and would dry out faster. Congratulations you are all on the way to understanding wildland fire. I mean, if you read ...
     
  17. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    My Son is IHC Type 1 NW Region. His education and experience with CAL FIRE is that they do not or can not manage the fuel because they are under funded and restricted by the State.
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    IHC = Interagency hot shot crews / Type 1 Hand crews. This is a challenging line of work, to be sure.
     
  19. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Very proud of him.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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