and people got snookered, cause the prices weren't very good, but they bought the hype. great marketing by hertz, and their media minions
There was a time when horses were transportation. Early motor adopters had petrol and electrical choices. Those EVs went to museums and petrol ruled for a century. Then hybrids came for another group of early adopters and PriusChat began . I dare say this group are generally satisfied. Then new EVs with much better batteries came for another group of early adopters. Each group of early adopters adopted and paid the prices. Late or non-adopters clung. An examplar group of non-adopters are Amish in PA and IN, who as I understand are still happy with horses.
As we have seen, some continue to pay. Not learning from history makes this topic very interesting. It's a clash we seeing playing out today. Before this forum was established, there was gen-1 Prius. It faced a relentless series of attacks from those opposing early-adopters. The catch was, those original owners split into factions... one side becoming enthusiasts, the other side supporters. Enthusiasts thrived on always pushing specs higher, the "more" mentality was their downfall. We've seen that pattern repeat many times over the decades. Supporters see what's best for the masses, recognizing need over want. Fortunately for us, gen-2 Prius stayed true to purpose, as did the generations to follow. That same pattern is playing out with bZ4X now. Lower prices for the 2025 model, rather than higher specs is evidence of that. Toyota's target is clearly the masses. Just like with gen-2 of Prius, it is quite realistic to see the same type of mainstream configuration for bZ4X. True, choice of battery-pack type will alter that paradigm. But that's the nature of market change. Ordinary consumers are finally seeing beyond misconceptions that held back hybrids, the same of which benefit plug-ins. It's unfortunate that conquest sales we saw with Volt & Bolt had the very outcome supporters predicted, no loyalty. Fortunately, GM seems to have learned that hard lesson. Tesla is still in the early stages of acknowledging a similar mistake though. Cybertruck has been a disaster and absence of any outlook in the entry-level category leaves the company with an uncertain future, nothing to draw loyal customers. There continues to be a "vastly superior" attitude. That brings us to the "Buy EV Now" topic. It depends upon audience. Showroom shoppers are the true indicator of status quo changing. With infrastructure so limited (few DCFC along highways and most apartments & condos not offering any type of recharge support) and most homeowners uncertain of being able to support level-2 charging, we are clearly still in the early-adopter phase. Now is reasonable if you recognize the technology is well proven but usage is somewhat constrained currently. For me, I have seen 9 more DCFC locations (public CSS) open up this year along my route to Northern Minnesota... Burnsville, Edina, Plymouth, Maple Grove, Rogers, Albertville, St. Cloud and Monticello and Baxter. Sometime next year, 2 from NEVI funding will be added... St. Michael and St. Cloud. That makes those trips pretty easy now, without even considering NACS adoption. No need for a long stop at the level-2 for a burger anymore; though, I did rather enjoy that. No need for level-1 at my destination anymore either. Needless to say, there was a lot to say about the history and there will be little in the next few years. Purchase of an EV won't be that big of a deal.
I wanted the New Tesla Roadster, but finally gave up waiting and bought a 2019 Corvette ZR1 instead. Neither are practical or cost effective vehicles though. We use our Prius and RAV4 HV as DDs however, because they are. YMMV
The PC versus IOS might be a better example. Exemplar? Nope. Horseless carriages are an evolutionary leap over the horsey kind - because I can jump into my 18-year-old Envoy right now, wearing shorts a t-shirt and Crocs and have a beer at the Cantina CPO club in Coronado in well under 36 hours - with a nap along the way and while carrying hundreds of pounds of cargo - or? Almost no cargo at all. I WOULD need my wallet and I would also have to ditch my ballcap and probably have to wear a different pair of shoes. The Pony express managed, with significant cost and infrastructure, to cover a far shorter distance (St. Joe Missouri to Sacramento) with a much reduced cargo.......in about 10 days, using a LOT more than ONE pony! The Pony Express only lasted about 18 months, and some people think that this is because of trains - but the REAL reason is the invention of the telegraph. People conflate commerce with communication, and it is little understood that before the 1860's both people AND COMMUNICATIONS traveled at the speed, and were limited by the endurance of a horse and rider. The ONLY difference between my very first car (1970 Chevelle) and a hybrid is that the latter is a LOT more expensive in inflation adjusted US bucks - and it requires less fuel to operate. Other than that? Not much of an evolutionary difference at all. Even BEV's - still in their infancy only have the rather large advantage of being able to charge by solar - trading money and efficiency for the ability to cut the infrastructural umbilical cord between fuel and vehicle, but the car would be tethered to the panels and charge controller/inverter. As for the Amish, you left out Ohio which has more Amish than my beloved home state of Indiana, but fewer than the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We tend to romanticize the Amish as being happier and healthier because of the false notion that the 'good old ways in the good old days' were and are better than modernity. I find truth in these perceptions to be somewhat mixed. We outsiders probably live a little longer on average because farming can be a little dangerous with 1830's tech, and in the US we have pretty good health care. On the other hand Amish are probably slightly happier than their anti-depressant popping counterparts, and they are for sure as heck healthier. I'm not sure I'd want to be a young lady in their society - OR a minor child of either gender (they only have two.) Contrary to popular misconceptions many Amish DO smoke and drink in moderation - and their children are free to leave at any time they want to with the understanding that this might be a permanent arrangement. The 'New Order' Amish also will use things like tractors and farm tools and some have generators and solar (both kinds) for electricity and heat and plumbing. This is probably a necessary nod to modern farming efficiency and the fact that Amish communities have LOTS of children and they stopped manufacturing arable land a looooooong time ago! Interestingly enough (at least to me) the New Order folks are much more apt to be non-drinkers and non-smokers than their 'old school' counterparts - something that they DO have in common with 'the English.'
That makes sense to me. I bought a 2008 Prius new for three reasons 1. It was practical for us. 2. It was going to save us a bunch of money in fuel cost (and it did) 3.Toyota reliability in a great car at a great price. Really not that interested in politics, saving the world or making a social statement- did want an economical car that was reliable and would get me from A to B safely, economically and reliably.
"The ONLY difference between my very first car (1970 Chevelle) and a hybrid is that the latter is a LOT more expensive in inflation adjusted US bucks - and it requires less fuel to operate. Other than that? Not much of an evolutionary difference at all." It's almost like emissions control never happened.
On free soil? .....almost. Where 18 million people are crammed into 3 counties that experience marine temperature inversions? ....maybe a little more.
Are we more to blame than we'd like to believe? Don't expect this talk to be palpable or palliative ! There was another new ish tube that spoke of the green perception of EV production. I wait and see how well that one does in the youtube analytics before sharing it.
Blame for WHAT, exactly? Even back before he was red-pilled and despised by leftists, Musk was clear-eyed about the REAL cost of BEVs in terms of things like economics, carbon throughput, human suffering, etc.... They (BEVs) are, I believe, going to be worth it in the end - warts and all.
I also agree that colonizing Mars is critical. I don’t agree that we need to burn down earth in order to get there a few years sooner.
I do not see them as being related. In fact - I'm old enough to remember when Musk was illegally pilfering from his BEV company to get his rocket side-hustle .....um.....off the ground, and he came to within a whisker of losing them BOTH. As far as Mars in concerned - better figure out a replacement for it's magnetosphere before we start laying out cities. -just sayin'
Eliminating government regulations allows SpaceX to get to Mars more quickly. Helping Trump get elected will lead to burning down our home faster. Thus, we are trading our stable atmosphere to get to Mars more quickly. The lack of a Megnetosphere won’t prevent settling Mars. It does preclude the possibility of terraforming Mars.
As far as eliminating government regs? I think you underestimate the forces involved in an object the size of a 20-story building, loaded with rocket fuel, screeching through the atmosphere for an attempted soft landing on dirt. As far as P47..... meh. I saw season 1.....and they always dial it back for season 2. I think both you and P45/47 overestimate his ability at getting junk done. At best, he's a semi-useful not-quite an idiot.
