NexPower V3 hybrid battery unveil - Sodium-ion battery

You're wrong.

Would like to be convinced. Nexpower isn't doing a good job of convincing.

Glad that you like the product. Hope it works out well for you. The product today seems very hacky, which is fine for those looking for that type of product. Personally, looking for something reliable and safe at a reasonable price.

Third-party testing would go a long distance to assuage the many concerns.

 

Told ya.... see post 131 and 140

 

why stop with them... I say, make Toyota a third party to test their vehicles before selling them.

 

But cold climates have only been here for a month or so...
I live where it gets to +100° and -5°. And my car does not sit in a climate controlled garage.
How does Sodium handle those temps? It not like the Gen3 has any TMS other than the wafting cabin air through the pack.
But the pack has to start the engine in those extremes. Air is a gentle, in effective way of transferring heat in either direction.
There are spec sheets on all the different chemistries of the cells. I would think 'real life' testing just confirms those numbers.
What are the numbers for this new Sodium cell?

In post #131 you said ''sodium is better than Lithium" but it seems you went from NiMh direct to sodium.

I'll wait for more main stream manufacturers to start offering sodium in consumer products before I jump on the band wagon and start cheering on this new tech. And I'll wait for my OEM pack to start aging....

 

Happy Christmas everybody
Imagine it's 1970 and you've still got a few years of High School to go, than you hear this on the radio.

ya been good Clarence?
youtu.be/jt1z8N5cUJQ

A little help for your imagination -
youtu.be/Wu4_zVxmufY

Oy --

That explains a lot !

 

Some stuff for the Gen 2 ers from Nov 2010
My visor won't stay up.... | PriusChat

many may not even know these ever existed .
04 and newer Prius Parts Cars

autobeyours.com/PriusParts.htm
Fix it Yourself and Save Thousands!

autobeyours.com/links.htm
Enginer | Solar Powered Prius Plug-in PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion | Hybrid

Luscious Garage Contact our friend Carolyn - now called - Earthling Automotive - Electric Car Repair in San Francisco

@ericbecky posted about one of these a year of two ago
Prius Aux Battery preliminary

and many more
there's your christmas dinner

 

Without getting into any of the other questions about these batteries, I'm not sure that "has to start the engine" is that big a deal for the traction battery. There's a 200+ volt battery to spin the engine up to around 1200 RPM.

The best figures I've got for how hard it is to spin the engine come from my 2023 engine braking measurements, where it worked out that twirling the engine at 3936 RPM used about 11 kW.

Cranking to start is more like 1200 RPM, so proportionally would come to maybe 3.4 kW, or about 17 amps out of the 201.6-volt battery.

Of course, my engine-braking test was in a running car where the engine oil was warm. I'm not sure what cold oil does to the cranking load. Double it? Triple it? That'd still be around 50 amps.

Somebody else may have captured direct measurements of the battery current exactly during cranking, but I haven't, hence my roundabout method here. Overall point is, for a battery that's fused at 125 amps and capable of larger peaks than that, an engine-cranking draw of 17 or 40 or 50 amps might not be very hard on it even when its temperature isn't optimal.

 

You too !!!
My reluctance to embrace sodium battery chemistry has you implying that I'm not an early adopter, I think....
I beg to differ with you. I won't give you my car résumé, but it has always had lots of very fuel efficient cars through the years.
I did have a period of flipping convertible Tangs and Camaros, back in my 'Glory Days'. Just because it was easy money.

I currently drive an EV and my Prius is my old-tech hybrid that I try to avoid driving so I don't have to burn that stinky stuff.
You?
Not sure what the theme of post #146 was at first glance, so I skipped it.

Thanks for the tech details on starting power required from the pack!
So the starting is not the issue, correct?
The issue may be driving a Prius with an extremely cold or hot pack with this new-tech sodium pack, correct?
It's impossible to drive it without much higher current flow, in both directions.

Time will tell if it's a viable option, and if it is, we'll soon see manufacturers using it, correct? And with a proper TMS.

 

No problems with cold or hot temps.

This sodium battery is a beast.

Been having cold outside temps below freezing and when lithium would be showing red bars when braking on declines, this sodium battery stays yellow.

Super Mario mode is another bonus!!

 

I can't pretend to any deep knowledge of the retrofit pack, but with the original pack matched to the car's BMS, it's quite possible to drive without extreme current in or out, when the pack is too cold or too hot; in fact you just drive the car and it takes care of that. It uses lower limits on the assist or regen it will call on the battery for, until the battery temperature is in a more suitable range.

How well that will work with a different-chemistry retrofit pack will depend on how well the NiMH-based rules programmed into the car happen to match what the retrofit pack needs.

Being too cold may not be a problem for long after startup anyway, as the battery can be warmed pretty effectively just by using it some. Should be ok as long as those lower currents are able to warm it without damaging it.

Which reminds me, there's a behavior I've never seen in my gen 3 but have seen others report here, where sometimes after coming to a stop with a hot battery, the car will continue twirling the engine without fuel (as in engine braking) for a short time even while stopped. This might be a rule programmed in to help cool a hot battery, as I've read that the NiMH chemistry is endothermic on discharge. A discharge current (up to a point) cools the cells. (At some higher current, I²R heating takes over as the larger effect, so the car would have to be using a lower current than that for this trick to work.)

It's not a given that every battery chemistry is endothermic on discharge and exothermic on charge; some chemistries are the opposite. I don't know which is true for Na-ion.

It would be awkward if the car used a trick for cooling a hot battery that ended up heating it more.

 

These first statements are opinions.

"Below freezing", so ? 31°? Was the pack throughly cold soaked overnight? How about 'below 0° F' ?

I know not about 'colored bars'. I understand spec sheets from the cell manufacturer.

 

Early adoption is a big theme at this chat box. Lots of differing perspectives on exactly what it is and what it is not.

I could care less if you or anyone else is an early adopter of anything. We all do what we do with the resources we and other provide.

Enjoy you're early adoption, as you accept others or not.

 

You said months ago you tested lithium project pack below freezing and concluded no issues. Sure you not a politician? Sure sound like one, anything sodium you say it’s bound to not be true either.

 

Vw got in trouble for using a trick to tell the obd2 to report lower than detected emissions even when values exceeded smog check limits.

Reminds me of the soother project that would reduce the lithium pack delta voltage values than true values so check engine wouldn’t light up but a fire in the hv bat would start instead.

 

Interesting article on subject:
Lower-cost sodium-ion batteries are finally having their moment - Ars Technica

"Among the other benefits, sodium-ion batteries perform better than lithium-ion batteries in extreme cold. CATL has said its new battery works in temperatures as low as -40° Fahrenheit."