NexPower V3 hybrid battery unveil - Sodium-ion battery

For those who live in a flat area, yes.

But for those who live in hilly areas, greater energy density will allow for greater energy storage on the downhill portions, recovering that for further driving.

Depending on the location and driving style, it can be quite common to run out of storage with the stock batteries. Most especially older stock batteries. My battery can still charge to 80%, but it frequently hits that on long or steep downhills. A brand new OEM battery should deliver an extra 20% capacity, but that would still fill on those downhills.

That said, if this battery starts to fail, will consider the various options. But as it stands now, not a lot of confidence in the sodium pack. Would probably go with OEM.

 

You won't get 100% charging in a Prius. It won't allow it.

How often have you used the Sodium battery? How many?

It's your money.

 

Still running the stock battery. Not currently considering the sodium. Watched some videos of it and wasn't impressed. Quite the opposite.

The packaging of the cells on the sodium appear to be grossly deficient. Really wanted to like it and almost bought one of their lithium packs, but they were constantly out of stock. Perhaps a bullet dodged.

The sodium has less power density, so less of a differential between it and the stock cells. It doesn't make much sense at the current $2,000 price, nearly identical to what a brand new OEM pack can be had for.

If the sodium were half its current price and had more robust cell containment? Maybe.

 

you know... with all of the battery experts around here saying they will go OEM vs Sodium, one would think with their all ruling opinions about batteries someone would've created a Lithium battery or even Sodium that doesn't have packaging that appears grossly deficient.

I mean... I wish people would elaborate when they say things like "grossly deficient" and provide tangible evidence to support their stance. Its like, wait... I must be the only gambler when in Vegas compared to most who would rather go OEM than an aftermarket battery. My experience, my gambles work out in my favor at least 89% of the time, heck I've only had maybe 4 trips to Vegas where I lost money and all of the other winning times I have won more combined than I lost... that said, the link below start off my IG story where I reposted a Reel someone made about having different views and the emotional intelligence while tying feelings into opinions posted on the internet... these days is wild..

The Black Jimmy Neutron IG Story

 

The internal baffling and construction of the cells were equivalent to ebike battery packs, vibrations will separate them apart. The lack of bms and low temp cut off are both essentials to lithium battery safety and both weren’t present in the lithium packs. You dodged a big bullet, I wouldn’t install a salty pack in mine If given for free.

 

When bringing a new product to market that is designed to replace a tried, proven, and highly reliable OEM system, the new product either needs to be better or cheaper.

But the sodium is roughly the same price as the OEM. Sodium-ion does not offering the massive increase in energy density that lithium can. The enclosure and packaging appears far less rugged. And hasn't been through nearly the same level of safety testing. Safety is a serious issue when storing this much energy.

At $2,000, in its current configuration, it's not a competitive product.

 

maybe its the PHEV owner in me, all batteries in non PHEV Prius vehicles are not highly reliable nor is it proven to do anything but go out on you and you need to replace it... now the Lithium cells in a PHEV Prius... yes, those are tried, proven and highly reliable OEM battery... that to say, those of you who think the Nimh OEM battery is good and worth buying over anything else are smoking the good stuff, you cant be trusted and should figure a way to market and sell what you are smoking.

 

Don't know where you're getting a $2000 price for OEM. I called several when I was looking
for a battery and they were $2500, plus the $1500 deposit, plus the $1000 installation cost.
And they wouldn't sell it to me. And they said they were NEW cells, not the "refurbished" ones.
I didn't want the price of used ones.

And refurbish is a bad word to use because they don't refurbish them. They don't change anything in them.

You're lucky that you can get them. I would guess they are "refurbished though....

People said the same thing when the nicad rechargable batteries came out(not hybrids).
Then the nimem's, and lithiums, and now Sodium etc.....
What are electric cars using??? Lithiums.... for now.

I've only driven 10,000 miles since installing it. With no issues. I installed it when it was consistantly
in the mid 90's with 80%+ humidity and it the blocks never got over 104 degrees.

You've never used a sodium battery but you are condeming them...

 

Yes, yes, you gain some stored energy on the Downhills.
But to get to the top of that hill it was "All the power comes from the Stinky Stuff.".

 

Many of the Toyota dealers give discounts. The price early last year was around $2,220, new. Some components have to be used from the existing pack, but all the batteries cells are new. Agree that a refurb is not a good choice in most cases, but there's a shop near me that guarantees their refurbs for a few years and charges under $1000, installed.

Not condemning the sodium. Comparing it.

It's about as expensive as the OEM, isn't as energy dense as lithium, and doesn't have the safety record of Toyota's OEM, which has served many well over huge mileage. At the sodium's current price and packaging, it's not a compelling or competitive product.

 

My oem did well... it lasted 12 years. Prolong kept it alive for 3.
I got it in 2017. I CAN compare it with the Sodium battery. Sodium is better.
At least so far. Every NEW item takes time to find out if it good or not.

So far, the sodium is much better than the lithium, which is better than the oem.

If you want the oem, get it. You've already made up your mind. So why waste time?
You won't be convinced anything else is better.
The lithium was $600 less than the oem I could not get.

If you can wait a few months, the price of everything will go down. Though I don't think
the oem will go lower, or at least much lower.

 

1. So toyota is selling 'New OEM' packs, ready to install? For $3500 installed ??
I'd question the 'Date of Manufacture'.
Are there currently toyota hybrids still using MiMh? Is toyota currently making new modules for this age of Prius?

2. Right. They don't get to the cells within the modules. At most these shops get packs from the salvage yards or from trade-in packs.
These old pack may have one or two problem modules, so ideally they replace those modules with modules of similar age/capacity.

These 'graded' modules sit around on shelves for gadknows how long before assembled into a pack for sale. Every time a pack or module is 'cap checked' some of their life is used up and at some point these are now older, closer to failing modules.

 

Some how my '10 with +155k mi is doing well.
I assume 'Prolong' is a grid charger. How did you use it to add years to your pack?
(I have a small grid charger that works on the Prius)

How long should we wait to know how 'good' this sodium cell is as a viable option?
This is from the site. Not encouraging: Warranty: 2 years if installed by certified installer, otherwise 1 year, unlimited mileage.
The cobbled together 'refurb' packs have a similar warranty, no?
What is the OEM replacement warranty like?

Regarding Sodium viability:
I would think this is all according to the spec sheets for various cell chemistries. In different temp environments.
But only time will tell on lifetime of cells.

As an existing EV owner, I know how well Li-ion works and lasts, IF it has a proper TMS.
The Gen3 Prius does not have a proper TMS. At most it gently blows cabin air through the pack only when the car is powered up. The plug-in versions at least have a few resistance heater pads for when it's cold. But that's about it.....

 

huh? not on my Plug-in... which ones? are you sure? I havent taken apart my Prime hv yet but... heater pads to my knowledge is not included from the factory.

 

Even standard hybrids have electric heaters to supplement the cabin air which then goes to the battery.

 

I read his words as heaters on the actual hv battery and not a heater from the engine through the cabin.

 

Watch a tear down video on the Weber Univ channel.
Ideally you don't want your Li-ion pack to get too cold in the winter. I believe these resistance heater strips only worked while plugged-in.
So it's still not a proper TMS for the pack.

But you can only do so much with a PHEV pack. It's small-ish, mounted in the cabin, not insulated to keep in the hot or cold as required, only gets cooled if the cabin AC is working. As opposed to a coolant path touching the all of the cells to directly warm them or cool them.

An example is, my EV will use it's own power to keep the pack temp in a happy range while not plugged in.
But only down to 40 miles of range. So a car parked at the airport for a few weeks, in the dead of winter, will still have the range to hopefully get you to a charger of some sort.
While plugged in it will keep the pack at in a better temp range.

 

if I recall.. that's on the Gen 4 Prime, not on the Gen 3 Plugin... my Plugin had no heating strips.

 

I could be convinced. But NexPower is not doing a good job of convincing.

One doesn't have to be an engineer to see that their product does not appear as rugged as the stock packaging.

What would convince me? Third-party testing.

Put their module in a shaker rig for 100 hours, see how it handles it. Run repeated charge and discharge cycles while at environmental temperature extremes to see how it handles it. Put the reports and unedited time-lapse videos of those tests online.

The problem is that their product and their communication does not install confidence. High capacity battery storage systems have important safety concerns. They need to thoroughly address them.

 

ha ha ha ha
NOTHING will convince you. See post #131.

He has done testing. I'm testing one. REAL world.
I installed it in September, 10,000 miles ago. And I'm not the only one.
95 degrees, 80% + humidity. Others were testing in cold climates.

I drive on a lot of bumpy roads, contruction. I've had no issues.
Putting anything in a "shaker" for 100 hours in just insane. I would doubt Toyota did that.
They certainly don't put their results up for the world to see. At least, not the negative parts.

Communication with Jack has been excellant, at least with me. I'm extremely happy with
him and his product. Everything he told me and what was on the site was correct.

Again, post #131....