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Inverter coolant pump.. pump running but not flowing.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Tynyyn, Aug 11, 2022.

  1. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Most people think that's the only option and there's no way around it...
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    The pump I am using is the pump on a Gen 2 that's the 14.4 volt pump in between the actuator master cylinder whatever that is where that's activated by your foot and the part to the left the accumulator and pump whatever I found this pump when I was changing my brake part it's right there in between those two parts sitting up there or rather this is on an '07 I'm sorry it's sitting right between the accumulator and the actuator of the brake part so it's right up against the firewall almost if you look carefully you'll see it it's a black pump it's marked 14.4 volts The car I took it out of I cut the plug with it so I had to splice the wires when I took the old inverter pump and its mount away and put this in place and so far it's been great not miss the beat. Now there's a 12 volt version of this exact same pump right next to your stainless steel accumulator tank I guess that's for coolant I do believe. There's a 12 volt version of this pump sitting right next to that coolant jug I tried this pump it burned up in 2 days. The 14-4 version between the two brake parts is still in the car running perfectly as the inverter pump.
     
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  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yeah replace the anode rod and sacrificial most people don't even know it's there and the new ones aren't squat but you can still get the old ones at like Ferguson if you look
     
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  4. Tynyyn

    Tynyyn Member

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    FWIW, about a month ago I noticed the inverter coolant tank was a wee bit low so I poured some yellow coolant into the tank. Guess that few ounces of coolant intermixed with the red coolant caused some aluminum corrosion. Now a month later the coolant pump dies and I replace it along with about a quart of Zerex Toyota red coolant. Now the pump works but no coolant is being moved, and the coolant has turned a rust color, thus I can guess the yellow coolant is the culprit. If I use the garden hose flush method will that push the corrosion out of the system or am I really screwed. I'm thinking about dumping the inverter coolant, flush the system with a garden hose and then refill it with red Zerex antifreeze made for Toyota cars.

    What do you fellows think about this approach to my problem?
     
  5. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    https://www.plumbingforums.com/threads/notes-on-cleaning-sediment-from-a-gas-water-heater.21882/#post-170740

    The blobs from water heater rods do not appear to be as gummy and thick as the junk shown in that inverter picture. I had no problem squishing water heater blobs between my fingers, it wasn't even as tough as a similar sized drop of Jello. The water heater blobs are also translucent, almost transparent, whereas the mess in that inverter looks like it might be many tiny aluminum particles emulsified in a thick grease. The inverter crud also looks a bit like thermal paste, the kind which is placed between a semiconductor chip and its heat sink. Some of those use aluminum oxide as filler:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_paste
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The inverter is assembled with thermal paste ... but it goes on the dry side of the aluminum, not the wet side!
     
  7. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Hose it out, draining into a large container or kiddy pool. If chunks of crud come out then keep going until they no longer do, and for a while beyond that.

    Immediately precede to the next step. (If you let it dry minerals will stick to the innards and those will be very hard to remove once crystallized. Want to fill the inverter with vinegar and let it soak? Didn't think so.)

    Rinse with a couple of gallons of distilled water to remove minerals from hose water. ( Warming it first to 120F or so is better, and will dissolve any remaining minerals more completely, but will not be hot enough to burn you or damage the car.)

    Drain.

    Add the specified Toyota coolant (and no other).

    Get the air out of the system.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    When I was flushing my water heater, I used a little electric submersible utility pump, in a mortar-mixing tub part-filled with water.

    I ran a large hose from the WH drain valve into the tub, and a hose on the pump discharge that I adapted down to a stiff stick of PEX that I could stick down into the WH through the anode hole at the top, and move the aim all around the bottom of the tank to stir up the goop. So the same water just kept flowing out into the tub, with the sediment settling out, and the water getting reused.

    You could possibly do something like that here, with a pump and a bunch of distilled water you just keep pumping through. Then you would never have let mineral-laden tap water in there.

    Sometimes for flushing it can be handy to reverse the flow direction. It's normally into the inverter through the elbow at the front and out through the reservoir, so the other direction might help dislodge something.
     
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  9. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    YEP Dex Cool. Not good.

    Just use garden hose to flush. Compare volume of input to volume of output
    of the water with pump bypassed And see if your getting anywhere clog wise.
    Don’t waste any coolant $$ at this point see how clogged the coolant channels are,

    If the flush looks pretty good dump out the garden hose water and fill it backup with Toyota LLC.

    use a new factory pump, system must be bled using the bleed petcock after installing the LLC.

    If properly bled should have good movement of fluid in the reservoir tank.
    I changed the inverter coolant 3 times over 14 years with mine and it had very aggressive movement in the tank.

    I used a bottle of Redline Water Wetter in that system too really good anti corrosion and surfactant. IR thermometer tests showed it ran Cooler.
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Also be aware the aluminum heat sink cooling channels in the bottom of the inverter are where the coolant draws heat from the inverter then is circulated through the bottom section of the rad for coolant cooling.

    G2 Rad has 2 separate tanks one for ice the other is inverter. Bad design they fixed that in G3 and beyond which have separate tanks so no ice heat soak.
     
  11. Tynyyn

    Tynyyn Member

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    Well, an update is at hand:

    First, get the correct RED COOLANT. Toyota demands a certain type of coolant to be used in the radiator and the inverter coolant tank. Anything else is bad mojo for your inverter. Do not put yellow, blue, green or clear coolant in this system.

    Second, if you can, flush your inverter system. Easy to do if you take the top hose off the inverter coolant pump and use a garden hose. Figure out how to connect the two and unscrew the bottom drain plug and turn on the water. I went to Lowes and found a Sharkbite female threaded connector with a 1/2" non-threaded male end. After the flush let the system drain. Might want to tip the coolant hose downward so it can have all of the water drain out of it. If so inclined, run some distilled water through the system to flush out any garden hose water. The local water supply might be contaminated with calcium and that get the small passages within the inverter coolant storage area full of hard deposits.

    Next, pour the RED COOLANT into the reservoir while the "ON" start button is depressed and the car is running. Take your time filling up the reservoir because it will take about 15 minutes to finish. Crack open the pressure relief valve and run a rubber hose between it and the coolant reservoir opening. It will take about 3/4 of a gallon of RED COOLANT to fill the system. Be patient while you fill it, but don't overfill it.

    It took me about an hour to gather the tools, unscrew all the bolts, flush the system, add the RED COOLANT, button up everything and take it for a spin. Check the coolant level once the car is on level ground and add more coolant if so needed. Repeat the trip around the block again and recheck the coolant level. Once completed you can go back into the living room and watch your favorite baseball game.

    One last thing. A flutter of the liquid, looking down inside of the coolant cap will only be noticeable when the system is full. If the system is partially full then the flutter will not be present. This part frustrated me until the last bit of coolant was added and the final spin around the block. I then took off the coolant reservoir cap and noticed the flutter. Before that moment in time when I added coolant the flutter was not present. Only when the system was completely topped off did the flutter begin.

    Hope this helps someone down the line.
     
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  12. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    You can also just fit the prestone or the coolant flush adapters they fit in heater hoses which is basically what the inverter hoses are on the inverter put one of those in and you just unscrew the cap put the garden hose on it turn it on let it come blowing out the side where the reservoir usually would be bolted to or out of the little 90 on the front just ahead of the inverter I think and you'll blow out the whole loop put the cap on fill it up and go
     
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  13. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I installed our heater in 2001, my first time sweating cooper and I didn't have a lot of time to finish before I had to hit the road on a week long trip. A few years after installing somewhere between 5 and 10 years, I shut off the heat and drained the tank. There was a lot of sediment and the drain fixture clogged a few times while draining. After the water was drained ( and I cleaned up the mess I made while unclogging the fixture, I went to change the anode. Damned thing was / is probably epoxied in. Someone on here suggested I use an impact wrench to break the anode loose, I asked how long a tank typically lasts after using an impact wrench on the anode, I didn't get a response. hint ( tanks glass lining ). Anyways, I refilled the tank and have tried a few times to get that anode loose since but have failed every time so far. I still have the replacement anode and I keep telling myself I need to flush the tank again. I'll get around to it one of these day, I hope... :coffee: 20 + years and counting. I've been pricing new replacements for a couple of years now too. So far fingers crossed !
     
  14. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Long time. The force is all on the nut on the top of the anode rod, there is some vibration going into the tank, but I have never seen a report of it breaking the lining. Just be sure to do it when there is still a lot of water in the WH tank, an empty one may rotate under the force. Our WH is around 30 years old and I first used an impact wrench on it, not sure exactly, 24 years ago? The first time it is removed it is really difficult, they really screw those things in hard at the factory. The replacement rod's threads are wrapped in teflon tape and pipe dope, and it comes out much easier. One other point about the "popping" sound which is usually ascribed to sediment build up - removing all the sediment will not always stop that sound, but a prolonged vinegar soak will.

    https://www.americanwaterheater.com/media/22707/vinegarflush.pdf

    (Let a little out the drain from time to time and test with pH paper - there can be enough calcium carbonate stuck in a "clean" WH tank to completely neutralize the vinegar. Once that happens it might as well be water.)
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Even with an impact wrench, I find it helps to draw a line on the top of the anode rod head first, to avoid discouragement. It can take a long time just clattering away with the impact wrench before you first notice the line's moved at all. Once it's moved even a little, you know you're on the home stretch.
     
  16. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Thank God I'm in the county with the water softener so anods are not a thing they make them water tanks stink so it's removed when you installed a new water heater.
     
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  17. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Soft water corrodes water heaters even faster as it is more acidic. For soft water use a magnesium anode, which isn't what they usually come with from the factory. If there are sulfur compounds in the water that can also cause issues, not sure what to do in that case. Bacteria growing in the tank can cause sulfur smells, that can usually be cured by cranking the temperature up high enough for a couple of hours to kill them all, then set it back down. I'm guessing that probably needs to be done periodically.
     
  18. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I don't know since the water softener all the smell and the problems went away It's a fairly new water heater that seems to work quite well I drain and try to get the sediment out yearly that's very easy to access.
     
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Water softener for the win and 20 or more years on a water heater.
     
  20. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I think @pasadena_commut is referencing mostly ele water heaters, I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.
    Personally, I try to stay as far away from resistive heat as I can. I remember paying my winter ele bill when my apt was heated that way. It wan not one of the high points in my memories.