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How to improve the heat dissipation of high-voltage batteries

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by james wang 20, Oct 26, 2024.

  1. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    Does the second generation Civic have 20 cells? Is it covered with yellow film? I think that battery is good, the internal electrode is solid, and distilled water can be added to increase the capacity. The problem is how to seal the water injection hole. I welded it, which is obviously not a good solution. The lack of regenerative assistance may be due to insufficient battery capacity. If the voltage drops sharply somewhere in the battery, the assistance will weaken or stop. Its battery has a metal strip close to each cell, which may be used for heating or temperature sensing. I am not sure. There is no such metal strip on the third generation Civic. Can you check it when you maintain it next time?
     
    #41 james wang 20, Nov 4, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2024
  2. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    The old battery pack I worked hard to build is not as good as your new battery pack. It is very good, right? I may also consider sodium-ion batteries in the future. Another option is lithium titanate, which is safer and has a longer cycle life, but the price is high.
     
  3. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I'm extremely happy with my Sodium Ion battery! The short and little city driving I do has
    given mpg increase from 38 to 46mpg. Without even trying. If I go easier, I can get at
    leat 50mpg.
    I easliy get 48mpg on the highway with little to no traffic. With traffic I can get 50-52mpg.

    Sitting at idle with the ac on, 3 bars to 2 bars is about 20 minutes, then about 3 minutes of
    engine run time to charge it back up to 3 bars.
     
  4. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    Great, thank you
     
  5. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    For sodium-ion batteries, improving their capacity utilization may be a problem, but fortunately it is already very surprising.
     
  6. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    2nd Gen civic has 6 cells pre stick, exactly the same as Gen 1 insight and civic. The difference is Gen 2 insight and civic have stick pairs spot welded together with a bus bar. 12 cells per pair and civic gen 2 has 11 stick pairs = 132 cells at 158. + volts nominal.
    The car typically ran at voltages between 160 to 185 volts when batteries are weak. I wish I know the voltage range when car was new.

    Panasonic stopped making and Honda cancelled the contract for those NiMH cells. Last model to get them was the cr-z which ended around 2015 in the US market.
    Both Gen 2 insight and the cr-z packs were 100 volt NiMH packs
    From 2006 until the end of production Honda packs in the US market were wrapped ( one stick green and one stick yellow ) each pair.
    From 1999 - 2005 packs were single sticks and were wrapped in orange.

    I guess one of your Honda NiMH D cells offgassed, if you really did try to add electrolyte to a cell.

    That offgassing on those D cells is surprising !
    if the wrap gets damaged and a cell shorts. Or cell(s) gets too hot and burst.
    I Have seen pics from early gird chargers that screem caution while charging those cells.
    Similar to the way Toyota NiMH modules swell when hot and not clamped or offgas and melt.
     
    #46 vvillovv, Nov 6, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2024
  7. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    Sorry for not understanding the difference between the first generation Civic and the second generation Civic before. Yes, the second-generation Civic has more battery than the first-generation. Each unit voltage is 7.2v, so if there are 11 pairs of units, the rated voltage should be 7.2*2*11=158.4v, that is, two batteries form one unit. Unfortunately, I tried adding water to this battery with no success. Insight's battery seems to be better, and the capacity without adding water is also good. It may be relatively new. Many people here think that the battery is of good quality, so much so that some people put it in prius.

    upload_2024-11-6_22-38-14.png
    My honda battery has no leakage. Even though the capacity has been reduced a lot, I don’t know why it lost capacity. I successfully added water to the yellow battery of the first generation Civic, and it did not lose traces of electrolyte. It is a problem to seal the water filling hole after adding water. I use The unreliable soldering method has been replaced. After adding water, the capacity is greatly increased, the internal resistance is reduced, and the durability is unknown. It has been replaced by a new owner.
    upload_2024-11-6_22-40-2.png
     
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  8. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    This method may be able to test the capacity status of the high-voltage battery, what is the set temperature of your air conditioner, the set wind speed and outside temperature, is the vehicle in the sun or indoors without sunlight, and are you the only one in the car?
     
  9. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Yes, many ( variables ) in simple statements about battery capacity and mpg. (y) :whistle:

    The exact same questions could be asked in this Gen 5 Prius Prime post
    Poor ev milage on 24 prime | Page 2 | PriusChat

    And similar questions could be asked in many many other posts, where others make statements while not including any data about the ( environment variables ) or ( variable conditions ), and than ask questions that could have very different explanations ( in different environments or conditions ). :whistle:

    I also many times forget to include important ( variable information ) that could help explain my reasoning, calculations or questions.
     
    #49 vvillovv, Nov 6, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2024
  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    In the hot humid sun, 90's. No shade. Sun shade on the windshield.
    "Echo" mode, A/C set to "auto", 74 degrees, 2 dogs in the car.
    About 3 hours sitting.
    When I installed the lithium blocks, I cleaned the bus bars. They weren't bad.
    But for the Sodium, I just bought new ones from a place in Texas. Ask Jack he'll
    give you the address. It was so much easier and quicker. I ordered enough for
    both sides, not really thinking I didn't need them for the one side. So I have the if I
    ever change the blocks for someone.
    I was really an easy job.
     
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  11. james wang 20

    james wang 20 Junior Member

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    I tried it. The outdoor temperature was 31 degrees Celsius, under the sun, the air conditioner was set to 24 degrees, the wind speed was 4, there was no one in the car, the engine ran for 2 and a half minutes before stopping, and the air conditioner could run for about 12 minutes.
    The car is running very well now, fuel consumption has been reduced a bit, the maximum is no more than 80km/H, mostly around 70km/h, 24km/L, the battery temperature is generally 36 degrees Celsius, the maximum is no more than 37 degrees. I haven't tried a single trip of more than 100 kilometers, and the temperature may be higher by then.