EV company sinking?

Lucid?

Probably.
Bad management of a suboptimal product.

Just because Solyndra was a colossal eco-grift doesn't mean solar panels are a bad idea.

 

Actually their technology is pretty good, better specs than my Tesla. But their cost runs about 2x higher. I've heard rumors about an over paid CEO and timing that hit peak battery prices. Regardless, my 2019 Tesla Model 3 is not broke so I'm not EV shopping.

Bob Wilson

 

People try to start luxury goods companies all the time, not many stick.

Electric cars are just the latest wrapper.

 

In the case of cars, a start up company is almost forced to go that route.
When a company is building it’s first product it doesn’t have the economies of scale to make money on low cost products.

 

We should bail them out like gm. These high tech breeding grounds are necessary for future economic competitiveness

 

I understand and appreciate the logic, but I don't think we've seen it fully played out yet.

So I agree- it's probably easier to start with luxury cars. But I don't think it's fair to say that the luxury-first route is fully validated until one of these newer EV makers actually makes it into the mainstream.

 

Who is working with on a non luxury first vehicle?

 

The GM bail out was more about unions, not GM.
I would have let GM go under - like Twinkies - a product that you can still buy after Hostess 'went under.'

If you bail out all or even some of the 'high tech breeding grounds' you create the exact opposite of 'economic competitiveness.'
You get something that looks and smells a lot like the American public education system.
Competitiveness means, literally that.
Not everybody is a winner.
Apple needed no bail money, nor does Tesla - or Starlink which, IIRC is the largest PCB manufacturer in America - maybe North America.
I wasn't bullish on big T about five years ago, because I didn't think that they had the logistical tail to match their publicity teeth - but a lot of people (lookin' at you @bwilson4web ) 'put skin in the game' and bought stock.
THAT is the way that the system is SUPPOSED to work.
If Tesla puts 100 candles on their birthday cake someday it should be because they EARNED IT.
If MY beloved 139-year-old company gets its tail handed to it by a 5 year start-up, THEY EARNED IT.

Economic downturns are hard on some publicly run companies.
Especially poorly run ones with the stank of bad luck or timing.

 

I guess that would be the folks trying the tricycles like the Aptera, and you could argue that the Subaru Solterra and Toyota BZ4X are not truly luxury cars; but are merely well-equipped SUVs.

Just floating stuff for discussion.

 

the aptera is not a practical solution imo. solterra and bz4x may not be luxury, but they are priced higher than most bev's.
most every carmaker is trying to make an economical bev, but the parts are still too expensive.
starting a new company with that first objective would be impossible.
if the aptera were a regular small car, they never would have tried it. as it is, the economics are questionable.

 

The Solterra and BZ4X aren’t from young companies.
Toyota has a HUGE amount production capacity and well developed supplier network.
Ditto, although not quite a large, for Subaru.

It may not be impossible to do it another way. Starting with a low volume - high margin vehicle is, in my mind, the most likely route for a new company.

 

.

 

Agreed. I suppose Tesla has come closest. I'd argue that the Model Y has the sales figures to claim mainstream availability, but I can't see it as something other than a luxury car. And perhaps that's exactly the formula Tesla wanted: mainstream luxury.

 

how do you see the y as a luxury car, even though it is quite nice?

 

model-y

qualifies for the tax credit

bz4x

does not qualify for the tax credit

 

I don't believe I've seen a Tesla that isn't a luxury car yet.

 

price, or luxuriousness?

 

i agree with this:

Luxury_car

 

I suppose I never felt the need to distinguish between them before.

Are you suggesting that they've built expensive cars that don't have high performance and lots of luxury features?