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Anyone using software defined radio?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Oct 14, 2024.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Starting to see chips that are software defined, radios:
    https://www.analog.com/en/products/adrv9104.html#part-details

    This chip:

    Features
    • Integrated 1 Tx × 2 Rx RF transceiver
    • Operating frequency range of 70 MHz to 6000 MHz
    • Transmitter and wideband receiver signal bandwidth from 12 kHzto 40 MHz
    • Narrowband receiver signal bandwidth from 12 kHz to 2 MHz
    • 2 fully integrated, fractional-N, RF synthesizers
    • 2 fully integrated, fractional-N, RF PLLs to control external VCO banks
    • Supports external LO
    • LVDS and CMOS synchronous serial data interface options
    • Low power monitor and sleep modes
    • Fully integrated DPD for narrowband waveforms
    • User-programmable ARM core with 928 kB memory
    • Interfaces include 2× UART, 2× I2S, I2C, QSPI, SPI, JTAG
    • Library of hardware accelerators
    • Fully programmable via a 4-wire SPI
    • Package: 196-ball, 10 mm × 10 mm, CSP_BGA
    With a microcontroller, it could provide digital communications while otherwise looking like noise across the bandwidth. Small "clicks" that wander off on a syncrhronized, pseudo, random pattern.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I've studied the product offerings every few years for past dozen years. Always wanted to buy one. It's the ulitmate DIY method for doing whatever you want with radio waves, as well as other parts of the spectrum. But so far nothing has become popular for ease of use. Your link seems similar than that, but if you have experience with this stuff and you can point me in the right direction I'd be super grateful.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Like spread spectrum? CDMA? Or something else?
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm curious too but recent eBay/Chinese offering look interesting.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Hard to find a transceiver these days that's not an SDR - but most of my activities lately have been in the 3-50Mhz range tinkering with digital. I do have some of the ChiComm tri-banders which I have used when the Wx gets a little bumpy but they're part of the "C" and "E" in my 'PACE' plan.
    GMRS and Meshtastic are in my 'to do' list.

    Tread Carefully!
    "Some" of the 70 MHz to 6000 MHz spectrum is already...um 'well regulated.'
    I seem to remember something about encryption being frowned upon when I was getting licensed, and 'Sad Hams" have been a recurring theme lately in post disaster comms.
    IYKYK.....
     
  6. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Chinese stuff will cause fires Screenshot_20241013-102320.png PXL_20241013_152157336.jpg PXL_20241013_152031694.jpg PXL_20241013_152004710.jpg
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was thinking along the lines of well known, "noise" bands like: AM, CB, FM, car key fob, and microwave oven frequencies. Frequency agile with short, digital bursts, should work fine. Add a directional antenna and a stealth, digital channel should work fine.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    In the US, Part 97 prohibits "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein".
    There are obvious carve outs - such as WiFi, car alarm systems, LoRa on the 33cm band (900mHz) and some private business class licensed sets.
    Private business band radio can be 'quasi-encrypted' if you get a permission slip from Big Brother.
    Stealth is binary.
    It works all the way or it doesn't - all the way.
    The "D" in 'SDR' stands for digital, obviously but it also means that whomever (whatever) is hoovering up those ones and zeros just has to be good at math to determine that somebody is singing off-script - and (just guessing here) there are 'some folks' in the Huntsville that ARE good at math.

    The trick would be to do whatever it is that you're trying to do without being 'interesting' to the government or some Barney Fife Sad Ham type out there that's looking for an excuse to dig that boolit out of his front pocket.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It would have to be done privately as a commercial product would be easily identified and blocked. Just the FCC doesn't have the resources to go after a "black" radio world.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The BATF doesn't have the resources to go after a "black" rifle world either - which is why you can buy a Glock Switch for a few bucks, or a full auto lower for a little bit more.

    HOWEVER (comma!!!!!) they do hammer the heck out of the ones that they catch!!!

    The FAA has three distinct advantages over the BATF:
    (1) Radio waves go quite a ways further than sound does.
    One of my current projects involves using a WiFi chip to optimize my HF antennae and to test propagation paths with WSPR (amateur radio software) - Wikipedia.
    IIRC we're talking about using 100-200 milliwatts to send a 50-bit message hundreds or even thousands of miles.

    If you want to make an illegal suppressor out of a [redacted] or a [redacted] and light up a 55-gallon drum with a rifle that's been modified by [redacted] it's [redacted] - then you only have to worry about anyone within earshot - pun nearly unintended.

    (2) The FAA uses a voluntary monitoring system (not just Sad Hams) in addition to civil serpents.

    (3) The Military and other Government entities have a vested interest in monitoring suspicious transmissions - and a lot more assets than the FAA.
     
  11. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Please post your experiences with your purchase to this thread...
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    One of my long ago bosses, back during his youth, bailed out of a pirate ham station just minutes before FCC agents swooped in to bust those still there. Though their primary sin was exceeding power limits. By a lot.

    Somewhat ironically, after I took my pewter parachute and various business units closed locally and consolidated elsewhere, one of the surviving business units was focused on analyzers and software for dot-gov to detect and locate enemy clandestine radio emissions.
    Being just a hardware guy aiming for pre-set performance targets, I didn't get very deep at all into the theory. But my impression of spread spectrum communications was that a continuous very low power broadband signal would be much more interference resistant than a short bursty narrow-band frequency-hopping signal. And harder to initially detect.

    While many modulation schemes are inherently meant for digital data, at least part of the signal chain path, from before the transmit antenna until after the receive antenna, the actual signal is still analog.

    ... which helps buoy my remaining company stock. :D

    I presume you meant FCC, not FAA.
     
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  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Trivia note: frequency hopping spread spectrum has been around for more than 80 years:

    " ... The first publically available patent on Spread Spectrum came from Hedy Lamarr, the Hollywood movie actress, and George Antheil, an avant gard composer. This patent was granted in 1942, but the details were a closely held military secret for many years. The inventors never realized a dime for their invention; they simply turned it over to the US Government for use in the war effort, and commercial use was delayed until after the patent had expired. ..."

    "... Spread Spectrum was first used for commercial purposes in the 1980s when ..."

    Spread Spectum History Page


    My basic overview was acquired in the late 1990s, as part of the 3G cellular systems design phase, particularly the CDMA side. Theory may have advanced since then. The hardware has very clearly advanced enormously.
     
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  14. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Lately the military seems to have trouble so much as shooing strange drones out of their airspace.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The Ukranians put up an audio detection array using cell phones over large areas, square miles, to detect the sound of piston powered drones. With early detection and identification of direction, the anti-drone weapons become much more effective. As long as drone emits any detectable signal, audio or electric, they are detectable and subject to counter drone systems.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I did.

    Sorry - I Biden'd that.
     
  18. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    I started to get a headache trying to understand this thread.

    Think I will go fire up the leaf blower. :oops:
    kris
     
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  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I love my brooms and rakes... Brings me so much joy to breathe fresh air and get lots of cardio in making gardens look beautiful this time of year. Wish I wasn't so busy working on Priuses...
     
  20. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    I have just over a half-mile of dirt road and an additional 5,000 or so square-feet to keep clear. Takes about three to four hours twice a week with a high power Stihl backpack blower from mid-October to mid-December. Lucky my real job is flexible as I would hate to make one of those leaf sessions a nightime chore, although I have worked it at night. It is rough, rocky and steep.

    I had a mishap several years ago and sustained some severe injuries. That has not made leaf work any easier, but it beats working in the office
    kris