Aisin Water Pumps - 5% Failure Rate?

They are Fortune Global 500 company among other things. It’s more likely somebody utilize their worn out tools that were supposed to be scrapped. Or the parts are simply scrap parts thrown to bin and were supposed to be scrapped. Sometimes the reasons for scrapping can be very minor (e.g. cosmetic) and sometimes serious (dimensional, material). Even if one gets his/her hands on perfect condition tool the manufactured parts most definitely are of worse quality. Processes and controls not followed either because documentation not available or cannot be used (because it’s secret unrecorded production)…or simply too expensive

 

This is very common with auto parts — the original manufacturers can sell the parts but they cannot use the car maker’s brand on them, so they grind off the Toyota or BMW or whatever. I’ve bought many parts this way. Same quality, same part, lower price.

 

I wonder how they pick which ones they will grind Toyota off of and sell through other channels?

 

Once the Toyota logo is off the part, the external fit and finish is the same but the internals can be radically different. They no longer have to abide by OEM specifications, materials, and tolerances. Chances are that the manufacturer is going to cut corners where they can to increase profit margins, now that it's been turned into a no-name generic replacement part. At least with an Aisin pump, you know what your getting; their name and reputation is on the line.
I don't see how this is any different from a knock-off Gucci bag or Rolox watch - manufacturer is too embarrassed to properly mark their products and decide to ride someone elses' coat-tails..

Just my 2-cents.....

PS: never experienced the failure rates indicated on those Aisin products. It's been 5-10 years, but I used to preventatively change them with timing belts. Every once in a while I would run into one, where the weep hole just started to leak; when I was changing the timing belt. So we're talk about 80K-120K miles and 10+ years of wear on most of them.

 

Honestly, I seriously doubt there is any quality difference with OE parts.

 

I got spark plugs for a Mazda yesterday; Mazda’s reboxed-NGK version was $50 (CDN), apiece. I got the NGK badged, for $22. With 12% sales tax, the savings was $122.44.

the parts guy confirmed I had the right NGK spec, and told me they’re not allowed to sell those, and that there’s more quality control on the Mazda plug. He did also mention (literally) that Mazda sprinkles magic powder on them.

 

That's one possible answer to the "how do they decide which ones to sell to Toyota and which ones to grind off the Toyota logo from and sell elsewhere?" question. If the answer to that question is, effectively, "by fair coin toss", then the conclusion follows.

I'm not saying I know that isn't the answer. I just don't know that it is, either. If they are currently tossing a coin, then it seems possible they could increase overall profits by choosing a different strategy, and it's unusual for a business to leave that kind of opportunity on the table.

 

we could ask independent shops the same question. They are professionals. Would they choose aftermarket or genuine if customer don’t mind cost and no difference in availability, warranty and other terms. I bet each and every would choose genuine. I wonder why

 

No. Toyota marks parts WAY up because they are inventoried worldwide and sold at car dealerships. Asin can wholesale these parts for more than Toyota pays them, while we pay less than Toyota charges. But you can’t stroll into your dealership and get one. They are the same parts, but the Toyota logo from the casting must be ground off.

 

Well, the CASE may be the same, But what about the electronics? And the empeller?
Look at the cheap chinese copies of Apple products, like chargers, for a tenth the cost.
They look the same on the outside....

But open them up, and there's the difference. Cheaper components, crappy solder joins,
cheap wiring.....

 

They are NOT exactly the same and one glaringly obvious difference once you take the housing off and look around a bit near the electronics and then you will understand why OEM is King.

 

Yes but OE parts are the same part; they aren’t a third party. This isn’t a knock-off. FCPEuro sells tons of OE parts like this for European cars.

 

Do you have photos? Cause if you took them apart and you have photos then we could see.

 

I asked dealership parts department about availability/price of plugs for our son's CX-5: plenty in stock, and they're $50 CDN apiece. Turns out they're Mazda-boxed NGK 1LKAR7L11. Got the NGK's from B&J Parts (under the umbrella of West-Can Auto Parts now, but still the same store) for $21.39 apiece.

Maybe same story with the Prius water pump. I'll likely replace ours at the next coolant change, using the Aisin WPT-190. I'll keep the old one, which I don't doubt is just fine, and see how it goes. Our 2010 is likely our sunset car, unless it get's totalled or something. (knocks on wood), so once-and-done.

 

You're talking as if you know more than I do about how they decide which units go to which sales channels.

I don't know how they decide. So I'm not saying you couldn't know more than I do about that. But it seems pretty likely you know exactly as much as I know about it, and talk is cheap.

 

If it's missing a key ingredient to make it last as long as an OEM part, it's a knock off.

 

Just look for the thermal tape strips on the back side/inside of the housing. Without those, your water pump is useless.

 

I do remember watching a video where someone tore down a pump and found the thermal interface tape missing.

What I don't remember is whether that was a teardown of a genuine Aisin (but logo ground off) pump, or a teardown of an obvious knockoff ... or a teardown of a counterfeit pump in faux-Aisin packaging. Those are all possibilities, but three very different ones.

My guess (again, I don't know this) is that Toyota-ground-off genuine Aisin pumps are probably pretty good. It would not surprise me if those come from the line that makes the Toyota pumps, and the ones getting de-logoed may just be the ones that score a tiny bit lower in QA testing than the ones that go to Toyota. I would be pretty surprised if Aisin themselves would ever sell "shoot, we left the thermal tape out of that one" pumps under their own brand.

From counterfeiters, that would not surprise me at all.

It might turn out not to be hard to tell properly-taped ones from tapeless ones in a test run watching with a thermal imager.