Greetings folks. Bought a 2013 with 200K miles about a year ago and we've been loving it. Not so sure how the last owner was on maintenance though... It has started up with the shakes only twice so far some time last winter, but hasn't given us fits all summer. After reading about it a bit, I'm getting ready to clean the EGR and replace the PCV and add a catch can for good measure. Given that there's such a prevalent head gasket issue, should I just go ahead and DIY that before it fails as preventative maintenance <gulp> or wait until the shakes get consistent? My wife's the one that said it rattled but didn't know at the time to check the coolant. It's going to get colder soon so I thought I'd get ahead of it if we think it's doomed to fail anyway. Thanks
You can't just change the head gasket You're going to have to take the head off the engine check the piston deck heights at top dead center Make sure they're correct there's a number and all of that and then look at the back of your engine assembly facing the firewall and look for cracks in the girdle and in the center section of the engine noting that the engine is a bunch of aluminum pieces stacked on top of each other The oil pan the girdle the reciprocating mass in the center section the head is bolted atop this
Any cracks or funny business or any weirdness in the deck height stop right there none of this can be machined to be fixed you'll be doing something else for sure if anything arises at this point
Check Carfax. Was the coolant changed, spark plugs, engine oil, brake fluid flush, transmission oil, water pump? I'd go there. Overheating is the single most contributor to headgasket failure, not EGR. That said, the headgasket may already be failing.
Judging from the miles and symptoms, it might have a stop-leak product in the engine coolant. Overheating is not normal. Could be a failed water pump, overdue coolant replacment. Lessee, what else?
It the winter it's common to get a rattle at start up because of condensation. Is the coolant level low? If it is, and there are no leaks, it might be a failing head gasket. Changing the head gasket before it fails would not be a back thing. I had planned on doing that, but it failed a week or so before i was going to do it. Check the valves for leaking, seat them ALL in if even one is leaking at all. And of course new valve stem seals. And while it's apart, clean the egr cooler, intake ports, and everything else. Check the impeller for the water pump for cracks. If it show any signs of wear, replace it. Might as well change the inverter coolant while you are at it. When filing the coolant, go very slow, about a cup or two a minute. You'll hear it seaking the lowest point and pushing out the air. Then you won't have any issues with air gaps. And fill to the "B" line.
Thanks for all that guys. I understand there's more to look for like tombuk2 said and I like the coolant fill tip ASRDogman. The coolant has held steady, but I'm planning on at least pulling the plugs and sticking an endoscope down there to see if there's any coolant or water in the cylinders. I haven't gotten a clear indication that the gasket's failed so I kinda want to side with "if it ain't broke don't fix it", especially as a DIY. But I thought I'd get sense of whether or not it's basically guaranteed to fail soon anyway. I just don't want to be the one to destroy the engine if I didn't get ahead of it or address it soon enough. RE Carfax - I did look at it when I bought it. I didn't see any significant maintenance completed other than oil changes; so there's probably a few more things I should do.
i would change it now, while you (hopefully) know that there has been no overheating and engine damage, which is more costly to correct after the fact
I'd agree, or at the least prep for a head gasket change. With 200K miles, and for sale, odds are really good something's going on. New head bolts and the Toyota gasket kit (head gasket plus most every other gasket/seal you'll encounter) are referenced in the attachment. Also, last link in my signature is the full engine section from Repair Manual.
Head gasket sealer is a known flipper scam but rarely if ever lasts a year. Did someone add sealer after the rattles last winter? It is a big job to change the head gasket including removing and replacing many engine accessories, harnesses and hoses including the timing chain. I would only do this preemptively if the engine does not burn oil. These engines have low tension rings and are prone to oil consumption. If yours is using a quart or more in 5k miles it may be a better candidate for engine rebuild or replacement given its mileage. One well known vendor, Gasketmasters (shown in above videos), has recently stated preemptive hg replacements are a viable option. Since Gasketmasters has been replacing Prius hgs for years, their experience may suggest reactive hg replacements are hit or miss. Gasketmasters does not like JDM “low mile” imported salvage engines from Japan even though that option seems better than a US junk yard choice. Others disagree. Dealers and many pro shops rarely want to do hg jobs because of reliability and warranty concerns. Those shops normally rebuilt 1.8L engines (often with new short blocks) or install rebuilt ready to go replacements. Some bottom line budget shops and a few dealers will replace a bad engine with a “better”used engine but with no warranty. In your case I would suggest preemptive hg replacement if not an oil burner. Otherwise wait and see if shakes and rattles return and replacement is a better option. Gasketmasters Shudder video “Hey Walt… they want to wait and see if it gets worse…”
Leak test first. If passes, then begin replacing parts. If fail, dump stop leak and sell it to innocent buyer. Let the moral priuschat police come and read me my rights.
Ah, the 3rd Gen version of pay it forward, lol. terms/expressions like “paranoia” and “if it ain’t broke” reveal a less than complete understanding. Ditto for “EGR fanatics”, “fear mongers”, and so on. stick with it, connect the dots of cause-and-effect stuff. The elephant in the room is Toyota; they are NOT in your corner. With every Gen they manage to eff something up, and leave the owners to sort it out.
My 02 comment... Preventative maintenance? Yes, that is a big job. I would first watch the coolant level. Second, give a leak down and compression test. If those 3 tests pass as good, I would wait (until true failure) for this job. However, without knowing the service history, a full radiator/ block coolant flush would be a good idea and offer a baseline. The shake could well be an ignition issue. The EGR and PCV cleaning, plus a catch can are good ideas to initiate. Good luck.
Gez man. The car has 200,000 miles on it. Blaming Toyota after getting that many trouble free miles on it (it wasn't even properly maintained) is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
Thanks for all the help guys - I've seen some of those videos but not all. Coolant has held level. I haven't noticed it burning oil, but I'll have to figure out or bring it in for the leak down and compression test. Thanks again - I like the suggestions to make sure the engine is even worth that much work on. What I think I'm hearing is - if it's burning oil then the engine is a lost cause anyway = swap out for rebuild.
A new short block is another option for oil burner. Or just replace rings/pistons. the TSB attached to post 9 has part nos for the latter, the post/revision rings/pistons. New block would have those too.
You can go to Toyota.com, owners, and add your vin in there. Have to create account of course. Then it’s possible to view all the dealer Toyota service records entered from new. It sounds like your car is fine although didn’t read the whole thread. At 200k maybe the timing chain could be stretched if it rattles often on cold start. I don’t know if the tensioner is external on that engine like it is on my Toyota truck.
Everyone says that but it seems drastic compared to the seemingly simpler solution of just putting oil in it every so often.
