Hybrid system Malfunction (Visit Your Dealership)

When mr_guy_mann did that for a gen 2, it looked like this:



The only time it gets anywhere near 100 A is one instantaneous spike during the time bouncing mostly around 20 A. (The kinds of things that often produce an instant spike like that also often work just fine if the power source slightly limits the height of the spike.)

If I remember right, old PriusChat member hobbit also has such a graph somewhere, also captured on a gen 2.

 

This the perfect textbook case in many areas:
Buy new. These cars are very complex and hard to fix.
You have to be aggressive and know what you are talking about with warranty claims.
Always get a loaner. This effectively holds the dealers feet to the fire with an ongoing expense.
Be very detail oriented.

I salute you Pete!!
Anyone considering buying a vehicle should read this post 5 times. And then another 5 times.

 

I was sure that was why you asked, and I was confirming it's a reasonable thing to ask.

We have those graphs for gen 2 because people asked, and then went and did it.

 

What a nightmare! So you were without your new car for a month before you received diagnosis and a loaner?

 

And lots of 30-A spikes, quite-a-few 50-A spikes, in addition to the 100-A spike.

Moreover, Gen 5's electronics are probably more demanding and draw even a higher current.

This is why a degraded 12-V battery with a high internal resistance won't be able to start the Prius, as the battery voltage will drop too much during the high-current peaks.

Incidentally, I was talking to an Audi owner, and he already replaced his start–stop battery twice. The replacement OEM battery lasted for only three years. The bottom line is that hybrids and/or Priuses are not really special. No car is immune to 12-V battery problems. However, there are practices that help extend the life of the battery, such as avoiding using the ACC mode and setting the lights so that they go off as soon as the car is turned off.

 

A $33k repair? It could be a nightmare to keep a Gen 5 Prius Prime after the end of the hybrid-battery warranty—10 years/150,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Toyota battery warranty

 

I see large start up spike downward, and even a mystery lesser spike between midnight and 1 am recorded by the battery monitor. If there is a doubt about the voltage dips at start, just hit the start button and start the window going down at the same time. The window motor sound changes substantially when the traction battery takes over. I guess about 2 seconds until traction battery takes over.
Also the charging often turns off while driving in D. It’s pretty random. I’ve recently taken to putting the car into P at long stops. Immediately almost the monitor goes to “charging” in P. Since the shifter is so easy to put back to D quickly it isn’t a problem in delaying traffic.
This thing about coolant or refrigerant leaking on the traction battery, requiring a $28000+ battery replacement, wonder what that was all about.

 

and that's why Tesla is switching to 48V architecture. 70% less copper & a WHOLE lot less resistance - not to mention way faster canbus
.

 

Start-stop can be hard on the 12V. Some models in Europe had short battery lives before we started getting the tech here. The first start-stop in the Malibu had a second 12V.

They all will be with the spread of mild hybrid systems.

 

The gen5 Prime uses the A-C/heat pump system to cool the battery. The refrigerant line running through the traction battery pack in the owner's car had a manufacturing defect that allowed the refrigerant to escape, which rendered the A-C system non-functional. Unfortunately, Toyota does not consider the battery pack to be a repairable part, so the whole thing needed to be replaced as a unit.

And the $28k was the retail price for the battery. The cost to Toyota was probably something more like $10k-$15k.

If I was in this situation with an out of warranty battery pack, I would probably first try and find a shop that would attempt to fix the refrigerant line instead of replacing the whole battery.

 

Why would anyone with common sense do that? It's obvious using a booster pack that very little current is required to put the car into Ready mode. The battery clips would overheat and melt if anywhere near 100 amps were being drawn.
The burden of proof is whomever made the claim that 100 amps are required to put the car into Ready mode.

 

If out of warranty you are entitled to keep the parts. What a GREAT opportunity to give the Prius some ev range.

.

 

???

If you're talking about using a Prime battery pack to upgrade an HEV Prius, that won't work. The rear of the two models are significantly different. The HEV battery pack is mounted inside the car under/behind the rear seats. The PHEV battery pack is mounted underneath the car. The sheet metal is completely different in that area. Plus the gas tanks are different.

 

There already are DIY'rs that have added amp hours - to both hev's as well as phev's - typically by using trunk storage. Never say never.

.

 

Sounds complicated and costly. I would have imagined a rear ac unit blowing cold air into the battery air cooling system.

I looked at the battery monitor record. It appears the start up voltage, on the start up battery, drops from 12.6-12.7 v to 12.1-12.2 v in my example period. So .5 v appx. Whatever that means to the amps drawn. This is before the dc converter kicks in.

 

Even pre-chilled, air has low heat capacity. Using it would require larger heat channels, and that means larger battery overall. That's before adding a heat exchanger to chill the air.

 

That would be even more complicated than what's currently in the car. The current car has a single heat pump unit that routes refrigerant to the battery pack(for battery cooling), the interior A/C box(for cabin cooling and heating), and the front coils(for exchanging heat). Your idea(a second A/C unit for the battery) would either need a expansion coil in the battery compartment plus a blower and ducting for air, or it would need a second heat pump(and refrigerant and coils and blower and...) just for the battery. Either scenario is way, way more complicated than what Toyota is using.