Featured The Tesla monopoly on repair and parts; Why I won't buy one.

Regarding the video you posted as a response…

So I ask again. Do you have any actual information leading to the conclusion of Tesla bricking your car if you don’t pay a monthly fee?
Or is it just you venting without any actual basis?

 

Yes, today's cars have lots of sensors. Some have multiple busses for them to communicate to a controller that will display warning messages in a language of your choice messages. No more 6 digit codes via a scan code and a single check engine light.

Buyers want the features. And government wants other features. I've seen videos displaying how much wiring is involved and how lots of that wiring can be reduced. But the sensors will still be there.

I got my start on cars dating from 94 years ago. My first car was from 64 years ago. They were nightmares of reliability.

The video portrays a car with 197k miles on it and a probable cause of someone who changed a battery the old fashioned way and didn't maintain voltage through the procedure. And thus a need for reprogramming. Heck our current Toyota display technology can require a reboot but can be done without a tool if you know how.

I'm at the 5 year 36k point in my current car (Toyota) ownership. I'll replace the battery in a month or so just as a precaution. But have you looked at a modern Toyota and seen how complex even a simple battery removal would be due to covers and wires etc. So I'll wait for a sale at the dealers and buy then and let them be responsible for not triggering warnings. And I'll pay a little more. And the scan tool and the load testing battery tester will sit in my garage ... heck the load tester has never been out of the box because I bought it when I had a car in which I could change the battery. And now I can't because the scan tool is generic and that is the price I knew I was paying for all the benefits of all the computer controlled sensors and modules that my 5 year old car has. Even my '99 car had features a generic scan tool couldn't access. And the brake controller was one of them. The manufacturer kept those codes proprietary possibly for fear some one would change the coding and in an accident claim that it was the manufacturer's fault. And yes there were smart people who figured all that stuff out and you could buy the code for a single maker version that was as capable as the manufacturers computer rented to dealers for about $600 if you had a computer to run it on.

And the dealer systems I have seen not only pull the code but walk the technician through the diagnostic steps and repair procedures to fix the problem. Even give standard labor hours and parts ordering information. And can be used for firmware updates to meet recalls and provide improvements on controllers it is not wise to allow via OTA updates.

Would I rather a technician familiar with the car and its repair needs do the job or me? That one is easy.

More modern cars are being designed to reduce the number of wires and controllers for cost and weight reasons. Yep, Tesla did that. But not the sensors, features or the logic that controls it all.

So buy a '60s era Beatle. Because all new cars are designed to be maintained this way.

 

Many people find the multitudes of controllers and ECU beneficial. In most instances you hook up, the OBD shows you what's bad, and you replace it.
Gone are the days when a mechanic might think it's one thing then have to install another thing, & then another thing. Then they tell you it was all 3 things rather than the last thing.
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Seems to me it's more often the people who expect it to work like that who end up getting all frustrated and writing off OBD as a crock.

The ones who understand the ECU hasn't got any way to know what's causing the problem, but can only give them information about what it saw, and who are able to take stock of that information while they think out what the cause might be, those are the ones who benefit more from it.

 

The funny/sad part here is that EV sales went down a lot so China did not flood the market with EVs yet! On the other hand, they just suddenly introduced a lot of hybrid models (BYD Seal U and MG 3 or HS) in Europe so in the end it unfortunately doesnt matter.

They would try to flood and dominate the market even if we would go back to horse carriages.

 

Everyone, almost, has a cell phone , billions, all with batteries using mined materials. The push is to recycle all those batteries and the recovery % is very high. So if 95% is recycled into new cell phone batteries, power tools, cars, etc batteries, it’s another huge improvement over oil which is not recycled. Burn it and go get more endlessly.

 

This is true. I've known far to many people who always blame the somewhat cheapest part, that's still hundreds of dollars, and just change it expecting everything to suddenly work perfectly. A lot of things still need a bit more testing to figure out what it is. A prime example are the O2 sensors and the catalytic converter. There are ways of ruling out if it's a sensor, which sensor, or if it's the cat or something else.

Overall my experience has been that not all mechanics try to do a good job. And the ones who do usually charge more, which is okay I guess.

I feel that as a person who use to rebuild engines and swap transmissions and a lot of other parts that things aren't as good as they could be. First of all working on cars these days does require special tools to a large degree. I can't even flush the brake fluid on my Avalon without a TIS subscription and a Mongoose nor can I get the radio to work. And second, mechanics won't do things the way I'd like them to, with the fluids and brands I'd like them too.

All my experience wrenching on cars is pretty much worth mud these days, and nobody cares. So when I need things done, like get the brake fluid flushed, I take it in, don't get the brand of brake fluid I'd like, don't know if they really did it correctly by the book, I pay the $200 or so for the flush, and then get the car back hoping I did the right thing.

 

Another reason to stop buying ICE cars.
I'm just not sure when my Tesla or Bolt is going to need a new alternator.

Mike

 

Never, they don't have alternators.
They have power convertors, high voltage to low voltage.

 

Also, 120-240 VAC to high voltage DC. Power ratings from ~3.5 kW to 9 kW single phase in North America. I understand, three-phase, Europe supports up to ~20 kW.

Bob Wilson

 

earlier Model S's had nearly 20kW too, when equipped with dual chargers. 80amps. Even the X offered as available 72 amp up until ~4 or 5 years ago.

 

How is any of that limited to EVs or Tesla? Pretty sure BMW's heated seat plan was with ICE cars. Same when Toyota tried making the remote door unlock or start subscription. Others are moving to OTA for models with an engine.

 

but that won't validate the OP's narrative .

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Do Teslas' performance degrade when not connected to a network?

How many cars today don't have connectivity with some kind of phone app? BMW wasn't doing OTA updates to firmware or repairs when they had the idea for subscription heated seats.

Installing the hardware across all trims reduce production costs. Most others let everybody use it by calling it a standard feature, and then cheap new cars go extinct.

Then for some things, the cost isn't in the hardware, but the software. Eyesight would just be a dashcam without the software.

 

If performance includes AM radio (which must be streamed), then yes. Otherwise, I haven't a clue.

I do wonder how the subscription services that some manufacturers have tried to offer work when offline for a long time. I know that in the world of video games, some games don't work without internet. Others that are subscription based will stop working after a month since there's no way for them to check to see if you paid that month or not.

 

Well, since my cars have all driven the same way with the radio on or off, my guess is a lack of AM will still allow me to drive properly.

Some software at work wants to call home every once in awhile to ensure the license is legal.

A bill in presented NJ would have banned subscription services that didn't have an ongoing cost to the manufacturer on cars. Those laws need to be pushed for. Rent seeking isn't capitalism.

 

Then you would be cutting off the navigation system map updates, voice commands and most of the entertainment system

Mike

 

Sounds like a win win then.