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My engine bangs and shakes violently

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Goldy, Jul 19, 2024.

  1. Goldy

    Goldy New Member

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    My motor bangs and shakes violently.
    Oil is clean.
    EGR cleaned (roughly)
    Any ideas? Mechanic wants to replace the entire motor.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    This goes on a good bit with this model replacing engine is actually quite normal or you're buying the pieces to make a new engine as it is If it's not shaking itself apart yet you can replace this reciprocating mass the short block whatever you want to call it the middle of the motor use your pieces that are all around it the girdle the oil pan etc If you must that might be something to look into because everything else is well not a complete functional ready to go solution.
     
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  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    That symptom is associated with a blown head gasket. If it has been that way for long, there may already be damage to one or more rods, and that means a replacement engine is the best fix.

    A blown head gasket is best diagnosed by a borescope in the spark plug hole while pressurizing the cooling system with a test kit.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?
     
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  5. Goldy

    Goldy New Member

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    About 180K
     
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  6. BlainesGarage

    BlainesGarage New Member

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    Are there any codes?
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Second this. Also:

    At what miles was the EGR "roughly" cleaned? How "roughly"?

    How long have you had the car, and if second hand, at what miles did you acquire it?

    How's the oil consumption? (a factor in deciding what course to take)
     
  8. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Leak test first. If it fails, new engine. If pass, check plugs. If plugs are fine, be initiated to the egr cleaning club.
     
  9. BlainesGarage

    BlainesGarage New Member

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  10. Goldy

    Goldy New Member

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    Cleaned EGR just now because of the banging.
    Seen a post here about engine banging so told my mechanic to try that first.

    Almost no oil consumption at all.

    Had the car for about 160K and 10 years.
    Love it.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a 'roughly' cleaned egr might not get the tiny intake manifold ports?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yep, great cars till the engine goes. then the brake actuator. then the battery. then you're good for another 180k
     
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  13. BlainesGarage

    BlainesGarage New Member

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    A new ignition coil fixed the shaking death rattle on my 2012.
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    The latest I would leave EGR cleaning, a thorough cleaning, is 100k. 50k is safer.

    I would start assessing the head gasket; sounds like your mechanic has already.
     
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  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Your mechanic is right.

    But you could do a borescope inspection when cold but with manually pumped up coolant pressure. Use a quality dual view tool. Steam cleaned piston really is enough.

    HG Borescope at 10:57


    One thing that is indisputable about gen3 hg fails is the black sealing layer of the metal head gasket erodes away allowing a seep of coolant into the cylinder. For the first few months or even a year it only happens after an overnight cooldown of the engine. Sometimes it causes a misfire severe rattle and shake; often it does not. The hg seals quickly once the engine is running. At first there are no codes but the shake is unmistakable. The parts cannon is fired. No detectable hydrocarbons in the coolant. No change of compression. No coolant in the oil. No observable coolant reservoir drop. New spark plugs often clear the symptoms for a week or two.

    Traditional blown hg causes still apply such as overheat with warping and loose head bolts. But other triggers exist. Some think old coolant eats away at the head gasket sealing layer. Carbon buildup does generate preignition which is quickly detected by the knock sensor but still occurs. Some gen3s get so carboned up the preignition is audible especially when combined with a low hv battery. Aluminum engines warp.

    Toyota significantly changed the cylinder cooling passages, head gasket sealing area and cylinder wall heat distribution in gen4s.


    Prius Head Gasket Early Options

    History repeats itself with gen3 engines. You have several choices:

    1. Spend $800 for a dealer intake and egr cleanup or dig into it yourself. Not a simple job. Will not fix your early stage head gasket leak.

    2. Change plugs, coils and maybe injectors when it starts throwing misfire codes. It does not seem to lose coolant and passes a coolant hydrocarbon test. The parts cannon is the common neighborhood mechanic reaction at this point. Not cheap, another $1,000 thrown at it. You get a month or longer reprieve before you realize this was a waste.

    3. Continue waiting until the shudders are every week or so. Soon it will rattle at stop signs. Shortly after it is obvious - the coolant is low. It has been months and maybe $1800 after the first warning. The writing is on the wall. Now the repair is a replacement engine. Some will just do the head gasket. In many cases it will fail in the near future because too much time has past. The dealer will recommend a rebuilt engine to eliminate bad rings and they will clean everything like new but the cost scares you. At this point, a rebuilt engine is the right answer for three or more years of ownership.

    Or you find a quality shop now and have the engine torn down. The cylinder head is carefully inspected, cleaned and rebuilt by a machine shop. The quality repair shop installs a new gasket set. While they are doing it the egr cooler and intake manifold are thoroughly cleaned. The shop should have enough confidence to give you a year warranty. You don't get new rings so a trade within the next couple of years should be scheduled.

    Or you trade now and punt the issue. Don't sell privately, let a dealer auction get it.
     
  16. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

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    Its most likely blown headgasket.

    Mine was shaking violently too, but only at low rpm. At high rpms, it would go away as the speed of compressions would be just enough to make my small hole not matter as much.

    Now the question is, where is the hole?? If its contact with coolant, then you can remedy with coolant headgasket sealant solution for the time being. Mine wasnt, mine was just between the two pistons. Couldnt do anything besides replacing headgasket and hope for the best.
     
  17. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER USE ANY TYPE OF "LEAK STOP" OR "HEAD GASKET SEALER"!!!
    NEVER!
    THEY DO NOT WORK TO SEAL THE PROBLEM. IT WILL SEAL EVERYTHING ELSE.
    So you'll likely need a new radiator, heater core, thermodstat, coolant pump, etc.
    Which will ad hundreds of dollars more to the repair.

    If it just started, get the head gasket changed and the head checked to make sure it's not warped.
    The longer you wait, the worst it gets. The head could warp, a piston could get thrown through
    the engine block.

    If you have the money, get a remanufactured engine. It SHOULD have the lastest pistons and rings
    to resolve the oil consumption issue.
     
    #17 ASRDogman, Jul 27, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2024
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  18. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

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    You are correct, but not all gasket sealers clog the pump. Id recommend watching youtube videos of people testing it for themselves before coming to any decision. Chrisfixit has a good video showing different brands and which might clog. They work by solidifying when exposed to high heat, hence why they work in preventing coolant from entering your piston.

    It should be a last resort, if its not worth the cost to replace at shop or cant replace it yourself. Ideally you want to replace headgasket before you bend a valve or warp your block. Water does not compress easily, your engine will first.

    Some people might find value by risking $10 to drive the car another 20k miles before sending it to the scrapyard. The product can be effective.
     
  19. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    A liquid does NOT compress.....
    Repeat Post #17...
     
  20. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

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    Everything compresses. Hence black holes. The pressure under the ocean does compress about 2% at 3km under water if you're curious. It isnt significant, which is why i say the engine will compress before your coolant will, and the weakest link is going to be the valves almost every time.

    I dont recommend driving if that is the issue. I would however say i tried adding two different gasket sealant products to my own car and had no adverse effects. But my issue wasnt coolant entering the pistons, so it did nothing but only wasted my money. Just know the risks and weigh the cons and pros.