NexPower V3 hybrid battery unveil - Sodium-ion battery

What good would it do? I put the region I live in for my info and nobody ever reads it before they ask me...

 

Anyone who knows anything about modern day manufacturing knows 3D printing is what you do prior to spending the big bucks on the injection molds at the factory. Duh...

And speaking of someone who doesn't sound like they understand... Specifically, how more cell capacity improves MPG... It's all about the amps bro! The greater capacity of the pack equals a longer amount of time when the pack can pump out maximum amps, which means the Prius computers can run the hybrid system at its maximum efficiency for a longer period of time.

As for spending millions... There's roughly 4K packs on the road and they cost $2,200 which means there's been millions in income and if you understand the amount of collaboration with the top battery makers in China combined with the whole business since day one being funded by Dr. Prius app payments, it's not much of a stretch to suggest there's a million put into development.

Lastly, the nature of Sodium-Ion fast charging (in seconds) means future iterations of these packs may have a plugin system for home charging. Or further down the road it might mean a near 1KW capacitor recharging the pack to full just by pushing a button because sodium Ion can charge faster than other chemistries.

Of course logic and reason and the long-term potential of technological advancements doesn't ever have much influence on trolls, so I get it...

 

I have nothing against 3D, but Creality printers are a hobby and print helmets and other useless trinkets.

1) Not only the capacity, but also the class of the battery affects the maximum output current. For example, there are cells with a rating of 1C and there are 3C. So you are wrong here.
2) Let’s say we got a super cool battery, but what’s the point if the Prius ECU is limited to the parameters for a standard NiMh battery?

The application has >100 thousand downloads. Let’s say that over the entire period of time, 50% of people bought the program at a price of $35. That comes out to about 1,750 thousand bucks. But you need to take into account Google’s commissions, taxes and developer sallary.
Plus, these are downloads for the entire time, and not for a year.

Let's start with the fact that the cost of the kit is 1500 or 1800 bucks. But it is also worth considering that this is the selling price, not the cost price! But even so, 1800*4000 = 7.20 millions.(Upd)

Yeah, all that remains is to learn how to convert a Prius into a plug-in, but this is not economically feasible, everyone who was involved in this has stopped their activities.

 

Good thing you solely push a troller's agenda rather than actually verify your facts... Lol... Did you fail at math class in elementary school too? Ever heard of a calculator? Logic? Reason?

 

Yes, I made a mistake with one zero there. what about the other questions?
But where does the information about 4000 batteries come from?

 

Press reports suggest that lithium ion phosphate (LiFePO4) cells have recently dropped to around $50 per kWh, substantial cheaper than sodium, which is still around $90 per kWh. Do you find this a concern?

Additionally, why is the GT version only available in blade form?

From reading the description of each version, the GT version seems greatly preferable for average users, yet will be much more difficult to install.

Will a version of the GT in a pre-built pack be made available?

 

Not necessarily. For a non-plugin HEV, all the regenerated energy ultimately comes from the engine, and about 70% of the energy is lost in converting it from gasoline to electric charge. If you have a larger battery, all you end up doing is spending more gasoline to keep it within the desired SoC range.

True enough. But once that high capacity battery runs down to the lowest allowed SoC, the engine will also need to run that much longer to charge it back up to the highest allowed SoC. It charges less often but longer each time that it does, exactly negating any benefits.

...by 21 lbs, which is 0.69% of the mass of the car. The maximum MPG gain one could squeeze out of the weight savings alone are therefore also capped at 0.69%.

 

I actually find this extremely preferable to the non-GT. Yes it'll take you an extra, what? 30 minutes to install it tops? But you get the serviceability of having the individual blades. If one cell in the non-GT pack goes bad, you're looking at sending the whole thing off for RMA/Replacement, vs the GT where you'd just swap a module and keep going. I'm sure you can imagine how much better that is for when you're out of the warranty period

 

Certainly true for those that live in flat areas.

But those of us who live in hilly areas can see our battery storage rapidly filled without the use of any gas, simply by coasting down hills. Yes, we have to use gas to climb the hill, but we'd be using that gas regardless.

My stock battery is frequently filled to capacity just by normal driving. A larger amount of storage at the same or less weight would certainly help my MPG.

 

No matter the chemistry, lithium or sodium, it charges up faster than OEM NiMH.

Lasting an hour just being parked without the ICE running being one bar away from full.

This is with the AC on and set to 60F.

Then when it gets to two bars the ICE kicks on and charges it to three bars then the ICE turns off.

My example would be like the above and I would let it be at three bars after my one hour lunch break.

Then after work the ICE kicks on until it gets to desired temp and shuts off, unless I use the gas pedal to move faster, in which it charges the battery faster than OEM.

You are forgetting when you drive at high speeds, that the ICE is charging the battery while you are driving.

It also charges faster than OEM when you release the gas pedal and glide and also when you use the brake pedal.

So you are forgetting how efficient the system is at charging the hybrid battery.

So this battery that has more Ah lasts longer and charges faster than OEM.

So less time using the ICE means less fuel being used.

Then there is the battery being about half the weight of OEM.

Easier to remove with one person and better fuel economy because there is less weight to carry.

 

Fuel used (gallons) = time running ICE (hours) ✕ ICE gallons per hour.

ICE gallons per hour is actually a PID you can view in the ECM data list. It goes up when the ICE is working harder, as it does during faster battery charging.

Or when it is driving down the road making up for more rolling resistance during faster battery charging.

Physics has these funny laws about energy. It all comes from somewhere, and the math tells the story.

 

Lol@ working harder

I can drive at 50mph @ 1000rpm

The battery charges faster than OEM.

While driving at speeds above 50mph the hybrid battery never drops and stays one bar below full, then when I use my brakes on a decline for 1/4 mile then and only then will it be at full bars.

So the ICE working harder means the driver is working it harder than it needs to.

Only when driving very slow like below 50mph for really long distances, will the battery start to drop and even then it take a very long time to do so.

Your miles may vary depending on the driver and the type and condition of your hybrid battery.

 

Are you sure you live in California? For me and my friends, when the air conditioner is running in the heat, the consumption is 10A. Okay, let's do 5A for you. With a battery capacity of 10 Ah, it should have been discharged by at least half. But in hybrids in parking modes it works within 40-60% SOC. Someone is lying here...
Capacity (Ah)=5A×1h=5Ah

Absolutely right, most of the energy that is in the HVB comes from burning fuel. And only part of it is braking and regeneration. Even with a standard battery, driving on non-hilly terrain will never fully charge it.
Accordingly, a large capacity will not help at all.

Lithium has a lower resistance than sodium batteries. So has the battery become worse? And lithium turns out to be more effective in regenerative braking. Oh no!!

Standard batteries drove more than 200 thousand miles without problems, taking into account the limitations of the charge cycle of nickel batteries.
And the mega cool batteries from you know who have already undergone at least 3 revisions, and I foresee that there will be more)

Charge cycles are not as important in hybrids because there is no full charge and discharge cycle.

In general, I realized that there is no point in spending and explaining something that is already clear to smart people.
I'll wait for new topics when the cells start to fail.

 

Im in the high desert in sunny California.

No lie, I do the one hour park and sit in my car with AC on for an hour 5 days a week.

I have tested many different time and AC settings.

With the AC set to 60F and fan on lowest setting it will last a solid hour before ICE kicks on.

Obviously the higher the fan speed setting the less time it takes to drain the battery.

 

The US slapped huge tariffs on EVs and Lithium products from China... Protectionists trade policy when the US is failing to compete wit China's ability to lower prices spells doom for the future of EVs and batteries in the US.

There are going to be tariffs on non-lithium batteries, but not as bad. Also Sodium-Ion is on course to drop down to $40 per kWh. But more importantly, Sodium Ion runs way better in sub freezing temperatures and can better handle overcharging during Prius glitches/system resets.

 

Have there been any reports of said glitches not attributed to Nexcell's signal soother?
What kind of "system resets" do we know of that cause the battery to overcharge, and how can these be replicated?

 

The tariff on batteries only increased by 17.5%. It was 7%, and is now to 25%. The 100% tariff is on full electric vehicles.

Lithium iron phosphate are still much cheaper than sodium. They have more energy density, similar low fire risk, and they have a better temperature range at the high end of the thermometer.

For those of us who never see severely cold temperatures, lithium iron phosphate appears to be an objectively better technology than sodium ion.

The Chinese government has pumped hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies into all aspects of their EV development and manufacturing. China realized over a decade ago that they could not compete in internal combustion, that the west was too far ahead.

This isn't about the ability to compete on a fair playing field. China are trying to drive all competitors out of the market with massive subsidies.

Not a huge fan tariffs, but in this case there is a compelling argument in their favor.

 

I just read on the inner webs yesterday the the Dolphin is selling for 13K where it's built and 31K imported to Mexico.
I read a few months ago about the M2 release plans, If I remember right the estimated MSRP was close to what Gen 4 Prime was going for at release, maybe a few k less.

ps: I hope nobody asks me for links or/and what an M2 or Dolphin is. I'd near forgotten about the M2 and I didn't know what a Dolphin was until yesterday.

 

A simple search like "dolphin 13,000" suggests itself, but chiefly finds a story about a $13,000 reward offered for information about a pregnant dolphin.

 

Yes, you are correct in terms that energy has to come from somewhere and the limit is whatever measurement of peak energy you can extract and use from gasoline while minimizing energy loss to things like heat.

Bigger battery amps does help in minimizing that energy loss in various ways. For example, regenerative braking after reaching a full battery, rest of your momentum will not retain anymore electricity and therefore energy wasted.
Another example is heat dissipitation. More surface area to pull from more batteries at same time decreases the load on each individually and thus each battery will heat up slower. And practically, you would prefer more amps as thatll allow your electric motor to accelerate or drive in EV mode that much longer.