Warming up Prime in Cold weather.

Well ... Yeah, if you want a full EV experience you do need a full EV. There's no reason to engineer the car to heat itself in super cold weather with the battery and a seperate heater system when the thing is literally carrying around a giant expensive heater all the time anyway.

It's a middle ground vehicle with pros and cons.

Now, there being an option to run manually engaged remote start while plugged in with the engine would be good if there isn't a key engineering reason behind it. And if it is engineering related, hopefully they overcome that in the future

 

An easy way is having a carbon monoxide detector that detects concentration of CO near the car and if it stays above a certain level for a certain time, turn the engine off and get the horn going to warn the people nearby about the issue.

 

How much would that cost the automaker vs simply not allowing the engine to turn on while plugged in?

 

How much does it cost the automakers for any convenient features already included? Are intermitent wipers required? How about Cruise Control and auto dimming mirrors? That's a weird stake at something that could benefit most in cold countries since I would venture that those with an attached garage (they're basically the only type that is problematic) are in the minority.

 

Those features are a benefit to everyone, everywhere, through out the year. Having them in every car reduces the per unit cost to manufacture. When they were new, and production lower, they went into higher trims and models where the maker can charge more for them. Now they are so common that putting in crank windows into a base trim could cost more than just using the auto windows the rest of the line up has.

If those fail, people don't die. How much would it cost Toyota if the CO detector failed with a house filled with kids? I'm pretty sure CO monitors have limited lifespans, like smoke detectors, so they will fail at some point.

Cold countries are the minority globally. Why develop such a potentially troublesome system for a global minority?

 

I feel like, on the balance of issues, unplugging the car to remote start it in weather where the heat pump is inoperable and the car needs the engine to do its job is small. You're more than likely going to have to remove some snow/ice buildup, and want the engine to warm up anyway if its very cold out since it is likely the defogger will be used at some point and the engine does need to be some amount of warm for when/if HV mode kicks in etc. Even with remote start, at least in my experience, you still go and check on the car when its super cold if it snowed for example. What's the extra step of unplugging the car, in the grand scheme of things? The benefit to remote start isn't necessarily not never having to leave the house to do it. It's the fact you don't need to leave a key in the ignition and stay outside while its starting.

Also on your point about the model 3 - they have done away with backup heating systems in Tesla's. They all use heat pumps now, exclusively, for heating. And their maximum rating is roughly -28C. Which is better than -10C, yes. But the technology is limited by physics. The gas used in their system is only efficient down to -15C, so not much better than the Prius, and it also boils at -28C. If you live anywhere that gets close to -30C, the heatpump will simply not do anything for you at all. Heck, even googling online Tesla recommends people precondition for 30-60 minutes in very cold temperatures not just for the battery but for the cabin itself. To me, the fact that I can remote start my car - even if the inconvenience of having to unplug it on particularly cold days - and never worry about waiting 30+ minutes for heat is a major plus.

I have small kids, if I need to get them somewhere and we need the car, in the middle of winter I can turn on the engine and within a few minutes the heat will be on. This is good.

 

For cabin warming, if practical: a compact, electric space heater, say in the front passenger footwell, powered by an extension cord?

 

There are "cold packages" you can buy for many car models that has things like oversized washer fluid tank, wipers heaters, etc. It could be included in one of those packages.

The cars uses many of its motors and converters in an "inefficient mode" that makes it generates heat that is added to the system. Even the cabin fan itself has fins that pulls heat away from its motor and that motor is ran in an inefficient way to generate more heat than required. Webber Auto has a video on the Model 3 cooling/heating system. He's quite impressed by the ingeniosity they showed designing that system.

Granted, that mode COP isn't more efficient than a resistive heating source but at -30°C, after preheating for 30 minutes, I sat in the car with my coat on the back seat while we drove to the cottage for an hour and 15 minutes at the temperature set to 21°C (I keep the same, winter like summer). Speaking from past experiences, an engine will take quite some time to warm up at those cold temperatures anyway. Assuming it will start in the first place. There is a reason why towing company are overloaded during cold snaps.

When it's that cold though, there is rarely any snow (clear sky at night). You might get frost, but that's something for the defroster to handle. That's what it's designed for anyway.

 

That's rednecking something that manufacturers could have handled better.

 

It plus a block heater is quite literally the winter package that Toyota offers in certain markets as their cold weather package

 

Those are far simpler than what you suggested with a CO detector, and the package pricing will reflect it. What happens if the monitor detects too much CO when driving? Much needs to be considered and addressed for such a system.

Some of those things are standard on cars down here. I think the gen5 Prius has a heater element to thaw out the wipers.

CO monitors have a service life of 5 to 10 years. That's for units sheltered from the elements inside a home.

 

A car is a moving cabin, subject to acceleration in all directions. Sometimes many times more than gravity, such as in a collision. Placement of something that will cause combustion of carpeting...

My sig others Grandkids are like bus passengers: Begin scene with onlookers staring at a slowly evolving situation with sideshow-like delight while waiting for the situation to evolve to a point where it is then unsafe to intervene. Inject plausible deniability in a poorly fashioned one-liner ad lib type fashion. Then draw a scene of someone over-dramatically running like he// in a showy way and continuing to act it out for 15 minutes despite them not being harmed in any way, and me pointing this out. Then hear them exclaim how they could have been injured by fire, smoke, potentials for danger in running too quickly, long after the threat is resolved by me. Then hear their recrafted one-liner punchy stories all over again when they see their mom.

 

The Prius Prime has a heat pump, which is not efficient at low temperatures. I have a (solar) heated garage, so don't need to run the gas engine or heat pump on cold mornings. I'd consider a block heater for the gas engine, but read somewhere that Toyota discourages that. We used a block heater in New Hampshire and it was a blessing.

 

Eight o'clock, day one we had the block heater installed on our brand-new '10. Use it year 'round: preferably a couple of hours prior to any cold-start.

 

Last night, the temperature was -3°C and it rain earlier followed by snow so the windshield was frosted over with snow on top. I turned the Climate On remotely (through the FOB A/C button) and after 8 minutes, I was surprised to see that the snow had melt around the windshield's vents. I'm sure if I've let it run for another 10 minutes, it would have melted way more (assuming the windshield vent would have kept being used).

 

I have read the threads on engine warmup and still have a question. I have a 2024 Prime. Let's say I want to have the ICE engine run in park and in my garage (yes I opened the garage door). Is there anyway to do that with me either in or out of the car? Does the OAT of the garage matter? Does the charge status of the traction battery matter? What combination of button pushes or environmental conditions will force the engine to run while it is just sitting there?

KH

 

While you are working hard answering my previous questions here are some others. Does the ECU in our Gen 5 Prime's limit the engine RPM on a cold start up for a period of time? Situation: Leaving the neighborhood and entering the highway, 25 degrees F outside, Auto HV/EV mode, EV mode only used so far for 2 minutes so engine is cold and hasn't run yet today. Semi truck is bearing down on me and I need extra acceleration, do I get it all? Does the engine protect itself from high RPM when it first runs cold? I know the engineers have done their homework for these engines but I have never liked running a gas engine hard without at least a little warm up period. Thus my previous question. Can I warm the engine up a little before it is needed?

KH

 

Reserving judgement about whether this is a sensible thing to do, the simplest way to prompt the engine to start is to activate the windscreen defroster. That will start the engine for maximum heat unless the outside temperature is rather warm.

You can shut the defroster off immediately - once started, the engine will always keep running until it completes the warm-up cycle.

Yes, as with all previous Priuses, it limits engine rpm when cold, but it's not a hard limit. If you push the pedal hard enough, it will take you to max rpm.

If you're starting in freezing temperature, normal driving will mean the engine basically idles for the first 30 seconds to a minute - it will favour electric drive. Although the battery itself doesn't really like running below freezing either - ideally you should have had it plugged in to let the battery heater keep it above freezing.

 

If it's like a Gen4, turning on Defrost will start the engine. Again, if it's like a Gen4, you can't start the engine with the car plugged in. You must unplug first. You can turn the Defrost off as soon as the engine starts as the engine will only stop once it reaches its operating temperature, or you turn the car off.

 

ECU limits output of ice unless u push harder on throttle....then u override the cold operation rpm limiter and get full power. It doesn't damage anything. It's just inefficient and emissions are higher. Try it and see. why u think gas engines are so fragile?