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Number crunching

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Apr 22, 2022.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Maybe the rate of production increase as the morning sun begins climbing up in the sky?
     
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I see the aurora is punching over 300 gigawatts just now. Wish I had something that could tap it, now that I have a net metering agreement...

    Wish it wasn't so cloudy today. Barely 8kwh harvested, and we won't see the aurora due to clouds.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    After missing many great auroras to clouds, my hopes are way up tonight. Though with urban light pollution, will probably have to go somewhere else.

    Back in the 80s, while still living within Seattle proper, I once saw an amazing aurora from Green Lake, strong enough be show through the city's lights.

    330 GW now. The strongest I remember ever seeing on that NOAA-SWPC oval webpage was barely over 200 GW, during a great display that was clouded out here.

    PS: lots of great pictures already showing up here from Europe, New Zealand, and Australia:

    Spaceweather.com Realtime Image Gallery
     
    #343 fuzzy1, May 10, 2024
    Last edited: May 10, 2024
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I haven't seen it really light up since I lived in Fairbanks. Cloud cover all weekend at home.

    I almost want to cash in some frequent flyer miles, see if I can get a red-eye to... YUL? Maybe YHZ? (thinking of American routes out of PHL here...)


    Sorry I missed this one, late reply etc...

    It's 40 panels @ 380W each for 15,200W DC nameplate.

    It was determined that this array, at my location, built and pitched the way it is with shadows the way they are, will produce 19,600kwh per year. That number was the real target to hit- it's pretty close to our recent annual electrical consumption.

    Find that number from your bill and then work backwards to determine system size.
     
    #344 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, May 10, 2024
    Last edited: May 10, 2024
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks for the response.
    Is your system in centralized inverter with individual optimizer like by Solar Edge SE inverter? Or is it with micro inverter on each panel like by Enphase IQ8?

    I had now 6 different companies give me quotes, 4 with Enphase micro inverter and 2 with SolarEdge. The system size differ from the smallest 4.8kW to the largest 15.8kW. the total cost is different by size, but the cost/W all comes to be close to the market average of $3.33/W. Essentially, there is no discount by going larger size. But at the same time, with a smaller system it will not offset 100% consumption, so less saving. I am inclined to go with a larger system that will offset 100% usage to achieve net zero. I have explored the off-grid system, but for our current home and electricity need, it just did not make sense. The battery cost too much.

    Since efficiency of the panels used by every vender are all above 20% and very similar. Question is micronverter vs optimizer which are more efficient in producing more total power.
     
    #345 Salamander_King, May 10, 2024
    Last edited: May 10, 2024
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    This is my first date with micro-inverters. My setup has 20 AP systems inverters, each driven by two panels.

    The way I see it, trackers have been refined to the point where they're all about as good as each other, whether they are standalone DC devices or included in the DC end of a micro-inverter. So when your whole system is functional, you shouldn't notice a difference between trackers vs. micro-inverters.

    Where you will notice a difference is when (not if) an inverter blows out and is out of production for two weeks for a warranty RMA etc. With a micro-inverter setup like mine, an inverter failure only costs me 5% of my production until the fault is resolved.

    That racks up over the years.

    Also, I think you mean "$3.33/W" not kW in your post, assuming you are speaking of installed costs.
     
    #346 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, May 10, 2024
    Last edited: May 10, 2024
  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, my bad. The range was $2.74/W to $3.98/W. Our state average is $3.33/W.

    I do like micro inverter option for scalability and better individual panel monitoring capabilities, but the $2.74/W vender quote (the lowest bid so far) is with Enphase centralized inverter with power optimizer. Micro inverter cost more with a larger system requiring more panels (thus more microinveters).

    Your point is well taken. I hope with either system, warranty repair is an extremely rare thing. But I also have read that for a larger system, the centralized inverter with optimizer has better efficiency than micro inverter system due to shorter cable to run. Though I am not sure if that is really the case.
     
    #347 Salamander_King, May 10, 2024
    Last edited: May 10, 2024
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Yep. Between that, the transformer I was forced to buy and our selection of made-in-USA parts I think we will be about a dime hot on the average.
     
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Dime hot?
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    WOW!!!

    We drove to a Puget Sound waterfront location for reduced (but still lots of) light pollution and no tree canopy obstruction. The first 45 minutes, it was spread across 2/3rds of the sky, but very very underwhelming. To the unsuspecting eye, it was just like ordinary suburban light pollution, with a few very high thin wispy clouds lit up from city lights below. But a knowing eye could see numerous changing features, and a decent camera revealed all the aurora colors, no clouds anywhere. Not just a white or green or reddish show like I've seen, but all of them, and purple-ish too.

    Then it blew up.

    My best ever.

    Even with substantial light pollution, and streetlights preventing proper dark adaptation, it far far exceeded anything I'd seen in ideal dark-adapted star party conditions way back when. Even back at the house, with more artificial light and substantial tree interference, it was still the best ever, apart from the waterfront view.
     
    #350 fuzzy1, May 11, 2024
    Last edited: May 11, 2024
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Salamander king related his local average installation costs at $3.33/watt.

    I'm not quite done paying for stuff, but our project looks likely to land at $3.43/watt.
     
  12. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

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    Did you resolve the 5 sleepy inverters preventing you to acheive your goal
     
  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    No. I determined that they were all on the same branch cable and relayed the info to my electrician. He thinks the breaker for that branch is open inside one of the safety disconnects, which seems like a satisfactory explanation.

    He's (now) due tomorrow to investigate and correct.

    It's been clouds and rain for a few days now, so this hasn't cost us much production.
     
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  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Looking forward to annual production numbers!
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, in our case, the limiting agent is the size of the roof. If we want 100% offset, then we will need ~13,000kWh of production based on our current bill. But if we go with solar, then we are going to install whole house heatpump system. That will increase our annual comsumption at least by 30% to total ~17,000kWh. Our roof can support only up to 36 panels. max. The largest system quated so far is 15.8kW system with 39 panels (405w each), but I don't think they can fit all 39 on our roof. Even if they can fit all 39 panels, the 15.8kW system is likely to produce less than 17,000kWh annually.

    BTW, I have been on community solar contract for a few years. Although I don't actually own a panel on solar farm, their production dives to during winter. In our area, winter production is less than 30% of summer production.
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Yes, we anticipate most of our production in the summer and most of our power purchases in the winter.

    Ground mount helped us a few ways around- less lawn to mow. We bought fewer panels to hit system size because we could optimize their azimuth and pitch rather than following the lay of a roof. No need to synchronize with roof replacements. And with repairs going forward no renting man-lifts or even needing long ladders to get up there.

    I wish you luck!

    I'm starting to think that getting a house with too much yard was the best mistake I've made in a while.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Oh, you have ground mount. Cool! Any pics? I have not discussed that option with any of the installers, but I have seen some ground mount panels around here. Lands are cheap where I live. But I always thought the ground mount means more cost for the structures, than the roof mount.
     
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    My electrician hired Solar Foundations as a subcontractor. A crew came from the Delaware branch and installed the frame in one day.

    They have a time lapse on their site that shows how it went in. Not my installation, but might as well have been, looked the same.

    The cost of the foundation isn't nothing, but not crazy either. Even with the ground mount, a wooden power pole to fly the wires across our driveway and having to buy the power company a new transformer we are still pretty likely to hit $3.43/watt.
     
    #358 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks for the link and video. I don't know if they serve our area, but there must be someone who can do this in our area. The system looks very similar to the frame I see on the solar farms in our area. The one I see in our neighbor's yard is 4x4 treated wood frame construction. I suspect that maybe a DIY job.

    I have to keep this option in mind, especially if we are to built another house on our lot which I am currently contemplating. Unfortunately, even though I have plenty of land, they are all uncleared dense woods with mature trees over 30 feet. Only open space I have available now is the leach field where I can't construct anything permanent. let alone concrete foundations. I cleared most trees around house that would shade the roof, but still have a few more to cut down. Designing a ground mount panel solar system that is close enough to our current house main breaker would be a quite undertake in terms of clearing woods and bringing the line from the panels to the house. Yeah, my best bet for our current house is to utilize the roof top. I an down to the final list of several installers that offered me a quote for the job at $2.50/W-$2.85/W. I am going to pick one soon.
     
    #359 Salamander_King, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    You know the energy tax credit also applies to site prep like land clearing, right?

    We claimed 30% of the cost of taking out a stand of trees to put ours in.

    We have other trees, didn't like those particular ones and mostly needed a site that was to the north end of our property, knowing that we had to get the power to the existing service entrance on a NE face of the house. That's basically a given for code in the US.

    We preserved some open space to the west for an expansion array, and sized the overhead cables such that they could carry an expanded load later.

    The power pole in the yard and the lines to it are not pretty at all, but the whole neighborhood has gnarly overhead power lines. If I grow in a few more trees nobody will notice. The alternative would've been trenching the paved driveway and I just didn't feel like that.
     
    #360 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024