Car affordability in 2022 and beyond

I'm sure that any dealer can either get me the right taxes or I'll just pay them when I register it.

I bought my Avalon in another state and it was perfectly normal.

 

At the risk of thread continuity:

Not alone, his advocates and voters too.

Bob Wilson

 

The 10 cheapest cars for 2024. Manual transmissions are mentioned where applicable. Fuel mileage is in US miles per US gallon by the US EPA numbers, city/combined/highway. None of these prices include destination costs, putting all cars for 2025 MSRP+destination at over $20,000, closer to $21,000 and up.

1. Nissan Versa sedan manual $16,390 27/30/35 : auto $18,060 32/35/40 To be cut from production end of 2024
2. Mitsubishi Mirage sedan/hatch $16,695 36/39/43 To be cut from production end of 2024
3. Hyundai Venue SUV $19,900 29/31/33
4. Kia Forte sedan $19,990 31/35/41 To be cut from production end of 2024 However, should be replaced by new Kia K4
5. Kia Soul SUV $20,190 28/30/33
6. Chevy Trax SUV $20,400 28/30/32
7. Nissan Sentra sedan $20,890 30/34/40
8. Nissan Kicks SUV $21,050 30/33/36
9. Volkswagen Jetta sedan manual $21,435 29/34/42
10. Hyundai Elantra sedan $21,625 32/36/41

Not on this list is the Toyota Corolla, which starts at $425 more than the Hyudai Elantra. The Toyota Corolla Hybrid stats at $1,875 more than the Hyudai Elantra.

Note that there are trade-offs that aren't necessarily budget friendly. The Chevy Trax has more room, spare tire and tow rating, but at 15,000 miles per year and an average of $4 per gallon, you'd break even between it and a Toyota Corolla hybrid in only 3 years since it only gets 30mpg combined compared to 50mpg combined in the Corolla hybrid.

Another trade off is between good transmissions and good engines. A lot of these cars have transmissions with poor repuations, like traditional belt driven CVT's. But then the ones that don't, like the Chevy Trax, end up with other parts that make you question the longevity, such as a 1.2L, 3-cylinder, turbocharged engine.

I would like to see what tires cost on each of these cars. The tires for my Avalon about kill me every time I have to change them.

 

From what someone said on the Ecomodder forum, the 2024 Trax is selling at 14k per month, whereas the Spark was selling at only 14k per year. You can see how buyers have changed their view of cars: at all costs they need to be big, and if not, they need to be bigger.

Personally I'd want good fuel mileage. Of the cars that are going to last into 2025, only three on that list make it to 40mpg on the highway. And yes, they are the sedans, not the SUV's. This is something that people don't seem to get, and I'm also including EV's in this. If a non-hybrid sedan can get 42 mpg, but an SUV only gets 33 mpg (ok, well the Kicks gets 36) then that's around 25%-30% better fuel economy. In an EV that could translate as 25%-30% better range with the same size battery. Or the same range with a 25%-30% smaller battery.

Aerodynamics are important. I wish people would stop wanting to drive around giant shoe boxes.

 

Sonic sales started dropping when the Trax became available. In terms of size, they weren't much different. The old Trax was available with AWD, which many believe is something they need. The new one appears to be FD only.

 

Ya, I'm trying to figure out where that part of the world is where everyone needs AWD. Here in the mountains of Colorado where I just went around a snowplow out cleaning the roads literally just 10 minutes ago I've never needed AWD. Nowadays AWD vehicles are the majority of vehicles being sold in the USA.

You don't think the thing is going to blow up with normal driving by around 100,000 miles if not sooner?

 

Although I agree about four wheel drive, I like four wheel steering . . . not that I have it. Drive by-wire steering also solves so many mechanical and safety issues is another win for me.

Bob Wilson

 

The same parts that need 4WD.....

 

I feel the other way around. I've seen CVT's suddenly die without warning at around 100,000 miles. But the new Trax has a geared automatic transmission. With those, if you flush them out regularly they usually last.

I've seen turbochargers die an early death because, well, heat. Mind you too that the engine is going to be under a lot more boost and rich cylinder-washing conditions than a larger engine. Even if the engine were designed by Toyota, I'd have concerns about it's longevity due to the size and turbo.

Not that a person couldn't baby the engine. I'd install a ScanGauge and set it to show me intake manifold pressure and air/fuel ratios and try to never let it boost past atmospheric pressure nor enrich past 14.5:1.

 

Good to know. I believe those do have the same transmission IIRC. At any rate, I'm not actually familiar with either the engine nor the transmission of the Trax. They could be very reliable. But on the other hand, the Trax is:

1. Made by Chevy
2. The cheapest on their lineup

Both of those are red flags. If it were a Geo Metro or a Spark/Sonic made by some other manufacturer (Metros are Suzukis and Sparks and Sonics are Daewoos) I'd actually feel more confident. My mom's 2012 Sonic is running strong after 12 years with some 180,000 miles on it. So far she hasn't had a single problem with it. If I find a Metro XFI for cheap some day I'd switch to that as a project car in exchange for the Prius hands down.

 

Daewoo is GM Korea now, and has been owned by GM since 2002. They've had partnerships going back to the 1970's. The old Trax was just a lifted Sonic/Aveo done by the same group. GM Korea is responsible for the design, but the mechanicals were an international endeavor. GM small gasoline engine - Wikipedia

Don't know exactly who designed the new Trax, but it is still being made in South Korea.

 

Interesting. The original Aveo was apparently designed by Daewoo before the GM takeover. But the second gen, called the Sonic in most markets, came out in 2011, long after GM had aquired Daewoo in 2002.

On the other hand, my Mom's Sonic is naturally aspirated and has a manual transmission. Both of those would seem to have better reliability and longevity than what GM put in the Trax. If there were a manual transmission, naturally aspirated Trax I might be a little more interested. Then again, I'm the weird one who doesn't understand how econo cars in 2024 mostly get around 30 mpg. If I were to buy a brand new car today it would likely be the base, stick-shift, Nissan Versa. If I were to buy one in 2025 it would likely be the Corolla Hybrid.

 

Rumblings on the Sonic forum back was that the manual was less reliable than the auto. I once had a 2013 turbo auto. It's higher torque output allowed a sixth, higher gear for economy.

Efficient cars today get around 30mpg for same reason the adjusted ratings of such cars from the late 1980s got around 30mpg. The 1989 Corolla was a subcompact that rated as low as 25mpg combined because the base trim was still getting a 3 speed auto. The Sonic is a compact, with the hatchback reaching midsize when stuck in the sedan category. The new Trax is in the small station wagon one, and has more space all around than the Sonic 5 while having nearly the same EPA rating.

 

When I had the Nissan Leaf, I borrowed my mom's Sonic and hypermiled it to Denver and back. On the way down I was able to get exactly 50 mpg according to the dash.

I miss driving a manual immensely.

Speaking of old MPG ratings, econo cars and manual transmissions, I wonder what the Geo Metro XFI would get with modern MPG ratings. It was rated at 52 mpg on the highway IIRC. So it probably would get a rating closer to 40 mpg today, but it also cost some $15,000 by today's dollar. I don't think it compares to the Trax very well, since the Trax is bigger, costs more and gets worse fuel mileage.

 

Some modern cars have manual transmissions, and you would never know it.

The humble KIA NIRO HEV/PHEV/EV all have a manual transmissions that are a DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission).
It drives just like an automatic transmission unless you put it in sport mode and manually shift it. 50 to 60 mpg is what the gas mileage you should expect for the HEV/PHEV.

KIA/Hyundai has this transmission setup on a couple of their different models.