My Project Lithium Battery Caught Fire

Im responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

Its been clear for a while, most if not all have relied on what they read versus what they've attempted to challenge hands-on. So while regen might work one way, If I observe it to do something different with aftermarket parts which in a way might defy how we were led to believe regen and braking work... on a PHEV. Then I'm crazy and dont know what I'm talking about to people who dont even own a PHEV to know which lithium batteries it has.

To know and hear where its less about a good thing or bad thing or simple everyone would be doing it. Its been a fear of things catching fire or not working thats stopped progress forward. hahahaha to think, people are scared to put a pure sine inverter in their Prius over 1000W because those who appear to have just enough knowledge to be dangerous lists out number in equations they say should be followed or fire in Prius. hahahaha then I install two 2000+ watt inverters without issues.

see, you can quote all the educational materials on x, y or z. yet, its not until you install a smart battery isolator, go through three of them that end up not working for you to find a battery combiner that works and doesn't have hiccups in operation appearing to somewhat be controlled by the Prius and one of the many ecus they have. the only reason cockamamie proposals is because some chose to talk down on a product and question the only reported fire, its as if some have been waiting in the shadows to pounce soon as they see a problem.

 

People might have said you can't install two 2000+ W inverters meaning it is not advisable. Obviously anyone can install two 2000+ W inverters as you have.

I'd be interested to know for how long you can draw 4000++ W of continuous power. hahahaha.

Anyway good luck and warm feelings in all you do.

 

you know the reality is, the most I pull is ~1700W on one and about the same on the other when using the air fryer and induction stove. The ksy is the wires... never use the wires that came with the inverter, they will eventually melt.

thing is, I like to experiment to see the results, like charging and using the inverter with the car not in ready mode.

 

I was planning to buy a Nexcell pack this year just to have LFP as an option. Hopefully all these issues will be resolved and Jack can still stay in business and build better quality cells and modules over time. I recommend to always look for better sources for cells and manufacturing unless Jack can control the quality control himself with his own company. If he goes out of business I may still want to get a fresh pack before he does just to test it around. So hope all these issues can be resolve. Always hope that inventors and problem solvers succeed if they really want to. And all beta testers do their best to help build good products. Especially if your life also may depend on it.

 

Another manufacturing process to consider is arc/plasma welding. Soldering is not the same in strength as arc welding.

 

Oh no I have a V2 and was just about to send it in for a V2.5 Jack said to wait a few months. The new product is going to have a completely different chemistry.

 

Really? In the fire cited the pictures show a single module having had "an event" and it mostly just filled the car with smoke. Obviously that is not good, and it could have damaged neighboring modules in ways not visible in that picture. Still, LFP cells do not burn as explosively as other lithium chemistries. One suspects that had this been the sort of cell used in a typical Chinese electric bike there would have been a chain reaction with every module going off. Sort of a win for a loss, if you will. I'm not aware of any lithium based chemistries that have better fire safety than the LFP cells, although hard containers (prismatic or cylindrical) might have some advantage over the pouches in the current product. Perhaps that is what he meant by a "different chemistry"?

 

Jack is looking into using LTO (Lithium Titanate) for V3 of his redesigned battery, per post #38 in this thread.
Project Lithium Soother Test

 

And the plot thickens
Help! Prius throwing P1241 and P1300 codes despite new HV and 12V batteries | PriusChat

I'm still wonderin what caused the meltdown and how long it'll take for the linked thread to make it all the way to insightcentral for mudder to read, anyone else curious?

 

but an OEM battery was the replacement.

 

I have a suspicion and had one since this threads OP about what might cause a nexcell meltdown in a Gen 2 2007 with no priuschat post history. All of a sudden we get a battery pack fire thread out of no where.
What is the cars history? There are 17 years worth of questions just for that alone. What was the reason for self installing? the nexcell upgrade? And how was that install done?
It's pretty easy to get in way over ones head with these cars. And just reading this site one can read about someone or other doing just that almost on a daily basis.
I just skimmed the linked thread and can't believe what I'm reading. Not that I don't make mistakes and for sure I could be way off about my suspicion too, but a P1241 dtc is not even in the same realm as a C1241 dtc. Although searching the P1241 dtc returned mostly C1241 results with one or two P1241 hits mixed in.

I know many don't bother getting a TIS subscription when they attempt something like a pack install, after all there are thousands of threads that explain it in detail. But after anyone works on one of these cars and it has an issue where you need to call for help, don't you think it'd be time to look into getting up to speed using the OEM documentation.
No mention in this thread of what might have been an issue with the prius or the pack that might have contributed to the emergency. Just the mention of intalling a new OEM pack.
And the other, linked to thread, is headed way off the rails in terms for how both dtc s in the threads title are being discussed.
In much the same fashion as this thread went off the rails from very near the first few posts.

 

but wait... all who commented are experienced Toyota Master Mechanics right? That's how they talk with conviction in their words...

 

With these cars sometimes Master just isn't what it usually means. hybrid certified many times makes a bigger difference. Sadly we hear less and less about what makes up a hybrid certified mechanic, except maybe on the Weber Auto youtube channel. How many hybrid certified Master mechanics do you know? I've never met any, sadly.

 

I can see that the linked thread has "P1241 and P1300" in its thread title, while correctly saying "C1241 and C1300" in the text of its original post (presumably from the get-go, as there is no "edited" timestamp showing on that post).

So it looks like a pretty clear-cut case where a poster spelled a couple codes with the wrong prefix in the thread title, but got them right in the post itself. The second post in the thread includes a screenshot clearly showing the correct C1241 and C1300 codes.

A look at the responses on the thread show that the typo in the thread title didn't really get in anybody's way responding to the actual issues. Responders might not even have noticed the title, and just seen the correct information in the posts; or, if they noticed the title at all, they were familiar enough with the Prius to know that "P1241" and "P1300" aren't things, recognized those were typos, and went with the correct information in the posts.

Sometimes a thread like that will merit a response like "hey, you might want to fix the typos in your title, then it will be clearer and show up in more people's searches", but rarely does anyone get more worked up than that over what are clearly typos.

There is, after all, a pretty straightforward explanation of that....

 

Yep, I'm the one who went off the rails. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions after only skimming. No excuses for not reading all the posts or even all of the OP when it first showed up.
Funny how the P codes were from DrPruis and the C codes were from Techstream.

 

Notice the P codes shown by DrP are different codes, P3102 and P3108. Those are real codes. It isn't showing the C codes from the brake system, because DrP kind of focuses on "engine" and "battery" codes and doesn't show much else. (It lumps P3102 and P3108 under "battery codes", which they're not, but they come from the HV control ECU like some battery codes also do.)

And the Techstream screenshot is just showing the brake codes 'cause that's the tab that's showing in that screenshot.

P3102 is the HV control ECU griping about the "transmission control ECU" (which is a grandiose name for the box that controls the little motor that goes in and out of Park). There are seven different INF codes for P3102 that clarify just what the gripe is. It could just be griping about its comm connection to the other ECU.

P3108 is the HV control ECU griping about the A/C inverter (the part of the inverter-assembly internals responsible for driving the A/C compressor motor). There are three INF codes to clarify the gripe. It could just be about some of the wiring connecting the HV control ECU to the A/C inverter.

The fortune cookie for P3108 says "A/C amplifier" but the workup in the manual makes clear it's about the A/C inverter; the amplifier's a different beast.

 

It might be useful to note that P1241 is not a valid DTC for a Gen 2. Mostly where this is typed (in a Gen 2 thread), it is a typo for C1241. It probably explains why you saw the results you did.

 

Thanks both Chap and dolj for being kind and helping me understand.

 

you know, I will check around. my curiosity is sparked!

 

I missed so many interesting discussions.
The most interesting thing is that I predicted this. Proof.

[PROJECT] Lithium battery for Prius | PriusChat