Featured Can't Charge an EV at Home, at Work, or for Free? Don't Buy One

Personally I don't see a sub $20,000 car ever coming back to the US market. But then again, I hope I'm wrong. Hisotrically there has almost always been less-than-$20,000 cars in the USA (according to today's prices, adjusted for inflation). But many have been axed, at least in the USA (Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Chevy Spark, Ford Focus, etc.) and the three that remain are on the chopping block to be axed this year (Nissan Versa, Mitsubishi Mirage and Kia Rio).

So either I'm the only one who wants a cheap car and cheap cars aren't profitable in the USA any more, or these car manufacturers are making a mistake that's going to let some new car company take over the cheap car market in the USA.

At the rate the US any my body are going, I'll never be able to afford a house, nor save up for retirement, and when my current car bites the dust I'm not sure if I'll have enough in the budget for another.

 

You had me at

If you've got the money to buy one of those, but you don't have a garage, or a level 2 outlet to plug it in at night? How did he get that wealthy and not be able to see that one coming before he bought the thing?

There also seem to be a lot of these types of articles (you're going to hate your EV if you buy one). It's almost like there's a vast number of underhanded interests trying to stop people from transitioning out of gas guzzlers. I suppose the tobacco industry will be telling me all about the health benefits of smoking next. I think they call it astroturf - fake grassroots movements sponsored by entrenched industries and oligarchs. Only in this case, it seems to be a cherry-picked rich guy with a supposed sob story.

 

Good point. For the most part, I did indeed know what I was getting into when I bought my Leaf. I find actual numbers, test and figures to be much more helpful than blanket statements. For an example, with some of the charts on the MyNissanLeaf forum I was able to make an automated spread sheet that I just plugged the numbers into and it would give me a very close estimate to my actual driving experience. In other words, if it said I'd arrive with 20% charge, I might end up there with 18 or 22% charge. Only that one cold day did it not actually follow the readout of the spread sheet, but I don't think the rule of thumb numbers for cold air density and cold weather battery performance that I had plugged in had been thoroughly tested at temps of around -20° F.

Anyhow, my point is that blank statements that EV's are bad because someone had no idea of what they were doing is not very helpful. If someone is not going to buy an EV I'd rather it be because they actually know it wouldn't make sense, not just guess it wouldn't.

 

It is expensive entering the car market with all the regulations. The newest companies that made it are just EV, which skips the emission regulations. They also started with expensive segments, because cheap cars requires a large manufacturing base to get the low costs from volume.

That leaves big car companies that are just new to the US, and those are already being fought politically.

 

O yes, and I totally agree and understand the point. It doesn't make cars cheaper though.

From what I understand, what makes cars cheap to manufacture is volume. Basically the first car of a certain model costs a lot of money to get the tooling put together to make it. Say it costs a few billion dollars. So the first car costs a few billion dollars. But the next car is only a few thousand. So if the manufacturer can sell millions and millions of cars, those initial billions invested to start the manufacturing process of a certain model spreads out to an average of a few thousand per car. Maybe not exactly like that, but that's kind of how it works. So the more cars of a certain model that are built the cheaper each car becomes to manufacture.

But here's the catch, it's not that much more expensive to build a crossover or SUV or even a luxury vehicle compared to a traditional compact car, assuming the same number of units were built. But, it's easier to convince consumers to pay more for such vehicles because "it's bigger" and "more capable." So more people start buying crossovers which actually makes them cheaper to manufacture than compact cars IF the volume of compacts sold dwindles below that of crossovers sold. This becomes a win win for manufacturers because they can minimze production costs through volume while maximizing sale prices through "it's bigger and better."

In the end it spells out "d" "o" "o" "m" for the compact, affordable car. Generally, manufacturers know they can charge more for crossovers, so therefore the refusal to sell a less-than-$20,000 crossover, even if it's cheap enough to manufacture (because of volume) to make it feasible to price bellow $20,000.

The same may happen with EV's, even after their manufacturing costs dwindle down to, or below, that of an ICEV.

It would take a large percentage of the population that refuses to pay so much for a vehicle in order for manufacturers to start releasing economic models again. But right now, the general new-car buying population of the USA is willing to spend more than that for their crossovers, pickups, SUV's and EV's.

 

One thing about the Plaid driver not mentioned. When they think they're driving gingerly, they seldom are. My better ½ could see a green light turn red at the end of the block in the model X & yet reaching it in record time was par for the course. When you blow through a set of expensive Continentals in under $25,000 ... there's a reason. It was recharged once a week off of free rooftop solar so that even with the cost of tires figured in, we didn't take too bad a financial resell beating. But taking a financial beating in a high-end car is often the case.
.

 

Is it time to buy a new econo car now or forget about it forever?

The Kia Rio, Nissan Versa and Mitsubishi Mirage are all on the chopping block, their last year being sold in the USA. In a few years there will be no more econo cars in the US.

 

Coincidence:

My Tesla loaner was a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Driving 112 mi each way between Franklin TN and Huntsville AL, it used ~310 Wh/mile while my 2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus gave ~250 Wh/mi.

The dual motor, long range has an extra motor and front wheel drive as well as ~75 kWh battery. My standard range plus has a single rear wheel drive motor and ~55 kWh battery. Less weight and lower rolling drag gives the higher efficiency.

Bob Wilson

 

Before judging that others are complaining about not being able to do things in their life, realize that stating facts has nothing to do with the actual feelings of said individual.

Historically there have always been new cars for under $20,000 (even when adjusting for inflation for 2024). Right now there are barely 3, and in a year or so there will be none. That's a fact, not a complaint. I've never bought a new car anyway, so what's it to me? There are other pros, like better fuel mileage and better longevity. And if car's are going to be more than $20,000 from now on, it's not the end of the world.

But what you did to make your life better also doesn't necessarily apply to everyone or to the current generation either. Career changes can help. But additional education isn't what it used to be and in many cases nowadays ends up being overall more of a financial drain than a financial gain. Also working hard to climb that corporate ladder and gaining promotions in most companies also isn't what it used to be either.

I agree that concentrating on what a person can do and not worrying about what they can't is a good piece of advice. Most people still have a food, clothing and a place to live (1 Timothy 6:8). And there are very likely simple things thay can do to help improve their situation. But don't expect someone to be able to just pay for college sweeping floors, find a starter home, and work their way up some sort of ladder with hard work like people used to back in the day. Even owning a car is becoming less common for younger folk for very valid financial reasons. Sending a young person to college today will likely mean someone else has to pay for thier education, or their financial life will be harder. The cost of owning a home has risen much faster than wages and inflation, so it's going to be much more expensive (and often impossible) to buy a home no matter how you look at it. And cheap first cars are dissapearing from the market.

Maybe a person today could try out a different gig, perhaps offering some sort of service as someone who's self employed. They could try to move to some other part of the country where things like housing are more affordable and jobs pay more. Only jump into college if the type of work they're interested in will truely pay enough to cover the costs of college and provide more than working at McDonald's. Only get into jobs that truely have a ladder that can be climbed unless they're ok with the wage they get within the first few years. And also consider other forms of transportation, such as using a bicycle.

That's what I did. I had a bike until I was 21 years old. I will likely never own a home, but that's ok, because I choose to live in an area where the cost of buying a home is far more than what the median wage worker could ever afford. So I could move somewhere else, but I choose not to. I have worked at the same place for the past 18 years and there is no way I'm getting any more money without moving completely out of state. And even then, I will likely have to start back at zero and work my way back up. But that's ok. I have a car, food, place to live, and lots of friends and family that care about me and I care about them. What more could a person ask for?

 

How to Get McDonald's Tuition Reimbursement - Scholarships360

Walmart to pay 100% of college tuition and books for its associates (cnbc.com)

Starbucks To Pay 4-Year College Tuition For Employees - CBS Los Angeles (cbsnews.com)

12 Companies That Will Pay for Your College Education (investopedia.com)

 

Even if a person can get a college tuition for free, the pay scale for most college graduates is not any higher than for non graduates. So not only is it a waste of money, it's also a waste of time. It's basically losing the opportunity to work full time for 4 years.

I'm not saying this is the case for every college graduate. But say someone like me gets to go to college for free. There's a university here in town (Western State Colorado University) that I could even walk to if necessary. Say I keep working where I'm at, living where I'm at, etc. The only difference is I'd be going to college. According to College Simply the average alumni from this University makes $30,200 per year, and after 10 years makes $40,800. Even the top master's degree from this Univeristy pays only $41,600. That is actually less than what I make right now.

Salaries for Western State Colorado University Graduates (collegesimply.com)

Instead, I could work two full time jobs for 4 years, spending the same amount of time as I would if I were going to college, and come out some $200,000 ahead. Going back to the other hand if I had to pay the some $50,000 per year for tuition then I'd end up some $200,000 in debt after 4 years. Even if it somehow doubled my income, then it still would take 8 years for me to come out even assuming that I either also worked full time and had to pay for my tuition, or if I couldn't work full time and but had free tuition. And at age 52, that means I would start making more money until age 60, assuming I'd get $100,000 per year guaranteed.

So sure, some people might benefit from going to college, but for most of us it would be a waste any way you look at it. Not to mention that a lot of this assumes a person would have to both work full time and attend college at the same time. That's not going to work for most people. One reason I don't move to some other place to make more money is because I have aging parents and children to take care of.

Also, while a lot of people may be perfectly fine working for McDonalds or Walmart, that would likely be a cut in my pay and change and serious problems with my schedule just to get the free tuition. And that's if these companies survive. A&W, Sonic, Subway and Taco Bell have all gone out of business here in town, and commuting 70 or 80 miles isn't an option. McDonald's is likely the next to go.

 

10 Benefits Showing Why Education Is Important to Our Society | Habitat for Humanity (habitatbroward.org)

Education matters : Career Outlook: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (bls.gov)

 

While getting a degree is necessary for many high paying jobs, just getting one by itself doesn't guarantee anything. Nowadays, pushing the "Get a degree an you'll have a better future!" narrative is almost like "invest in the lottery for your future." Some people benefit financially from it, but most do not.

 

18 Benefits of Vocational Education in 2024 (icohs.edu)

Projecting Future Skill Shortages Through 2029 - AAF (americanactionforum.org)

U.S. Skilled Trades Labor Shortage Heightens as In-Demand Jobs Remain Unfilled the Longest | Business Wire

 

Yes, vocational and trade labor are likely going to provide more money than a university career right now. The problem with our economy is it creates incentives and then drops them.

I got into driving, got my CDL, took many courses in driving, was offered all sorts of benefits, only to have it all pulled out from under me 5 years later, as I was expected to do the exact same thing, but for less pay, no benefits and in less time.

As soon as housing is built back up we will fall back into the 2008 problem when I, and several others, were working for well below minimum wage, just to have enough to eat. I was making $3 an hour back then.

Financial security doesn't exist anymore. Stop pretending it does. You just go with what you have and can do. That's all we can do. I'm fluently bilingual, have several years in construction, understand advanced electronics and can do electronics repair and have a CDL. But none of that makes me more money.

 

How Much Do Coders Make? - App Academy.