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P0A80 Code- but is it really the hybrid battery

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Mellyman666, Mar 9, 2024.

  1. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yes pretty much that's what you're up against You keep driving it until it does it again because you cleared the codes or somebody cleared the codes I get that you have a permanent store that's wonderful forget about the permanent just put it out of your mind let's act like it's not there and we don't see it when the lights come back on and you have the not permanent code Don't immediately clear it. Then is when inspections and knowing what you're looking at might come in handy The difference in module or blocks and all that is very slim.
     
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  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You're comparing the P0A80 code, which is the result of thorough real-time battery testing that the battery ECU does continuously—something you have no way to duplicate—to a less-comprehensive snapshot "battery test" you are running with some tool.

    In that contest, the ECU is what's likely to be right.
     
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  3. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    If the P0A80 code is triggered again, a good scan tool can be used to look at the freeze frame data that was captured when the code was triggered. Looking at the freeze data, you should be able to tell which of the 14 blocks in the battery pack is the problem. The P0A80 code is triggered when a 0.3v or larger voltage difference is seen between the highest block and the lowest block.

    The complete battery pack is made up of 28 modules. A block is 2 modules, so there are 14 blocks in the battery pack. Toyota uses small wires on each block (2 modules) to monitor the voltage of the block. The voltage sensing wires are connected to the battery ECU.

    The battery data from the scanner that you posted in the pictures just shows the voltages of the 14 battery blocks at one specific point in time. I am guessing that the car was stationary. The highest block was 16.8v, and the lowest block was 16.7v, so the voltage difference at that single point in time was 0.1v. The ECU continually monitors the voltage difference between the 14 battery blocks. The voltage difference between the battery blocks will change as you drive the car. The greatest difference will occur during maximum regeneration braking (charging of the battery) and during maximum acceleration ( discharging of the battery). So a car that is stationary (not being driven) may show that the battery looks good, but when the car is driven (regeneration braking and acceleration) the voltage difference between the battery blocks may exceed 0.3 volts.

    If you want to monitor the HV battery, use the Dr. Prius app on your phone or tablet. Download the app and look at the demo, and you will see what I described above about the voltages changing in the battery blocks as you drive the car.
    See the Dr.Prius website for more information.
     
    #23 Brian1954, Mar 10, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2024
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  4. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Thank you so much, your explanation was really clear. I downloaded the app but it never worked, I am not sure if I need to pair it up to an OBD, but I'm gonna try looking at it again today because it was a little weird. Was thinking of trying to drive with the OBD plugged to the EV battery test screen and see if it changes (not sure if that's even doable).
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Keep in mind that the information the battery ECU has for its own use is real-time: it knows those block voltages in all kinds of different driving conditions and it knows the battery currents that were flowing at the same instants it saw the voltages. You can't ever touch that with any test you do with a scan tool, because the scan tool can only send queries to the car "please tell me a couple of the block voltages", "please tell me a couple more", "please tell me the current" and it gets snapshotty answers from the car—voltage readings from slightly different times than the current reading, and so on.

    You can do various kinds of rough battery tests and they're ok as far as they go, but it'll often be wishful thinking to suppose your testing shows the battery OK and the battery ECU has made a mistake. The ECU has the more complete picture.
     
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  6. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    Yes, you need an OBD2 bluetooth adapter to use the Dr.Prius app to look at the HV battery data from your car. To look at the demo that is in the app, you do not need the adapter. See the Dr.Prius website for information about recommended OBD2 bluetooth adapters. Two that work and that are inexpensive ($13) for an android phone or tablet is the blue colored Panlong or Veepeak, which are sold on Amazon. If you have an apple phone or tablet, you would need a different adapter.
     
  7. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    After one week of driving, using the hybrid mode and using the OBD reader to test the battery at several different moments in driving, I got a P0A80 pending code earlier today, and haven’t even had the time to come home to read up on what a pending code is, and tonight, the current code came back with two new codes:

    P1310
    P1259

    I haven’t had much time to research yet but am seeing that it’s (P1310) often due to a faulty ECU (kinda crossing my fingers that I can just change that piece but definitely didn’t read up on it enough yet to figure that out). I saw something about the braking system too. But again, every single test I did this week looking at the voltage from all batteries in the hybrid battery, was always good, and the battery always recharged and I used it often.
    Will do my research tomorrow but thought I’d update!
    Also waiting for the OBD scanner from Amazon (used a link from the dr Prius app that he said was good).
    Thanks again :)
     

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  8. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Edited to say the codes are C1310 and C1259, my apologies, very tired
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The C1259 and C1310 codes are very familiar 'round here. You can find explanations of them on this wiki page too:

    Blink (a/k/a Flash) Codes – How to. | PriusChat

    They are codes reported by the brake/skid ECU, but they don't mean anything more than "hey, the brake/skid ECU has been notified that the hybrid system has trouble codes, go read those".

    So if you have a P0A80 (which is one of the codes the hybrid system can report), that explains having C1259 and C1310. Those two C codes will go away as soon as whatever hybrid system code you have does.
     
  10. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Alright, thanks!
    Waiting on the OBD reader that's compatible with the DR Prius app in order to test my hybrid battery before getting a dealer involved.

    The car drives fine with the code on, I know obviously I should avoid driving as much as possible, but is there an inherent risk in doing so you think? Cause I won't have access to another car so wondering if travelling 25km about 3 times a week will be the end of the world lol (n)
     
  11. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    Based on the pictures that you uploaded in post #27, it looks like the Innova 3160RS scanner can access the freeze frame data for the P0A80 "Stored" code. If you scroll through the 17 pages of data, you should see the voltages of the 14 battery blocks (V1, V2, ... , V14). Find the block with the highest voltage and the lowest voltage. Subtract the lowest voltage from the highest voltage, and this is the voltage difference that triggered the P0A80 code. What is the voltage difference in the freeze frame data?
     
  12. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    I scrolled through the 17 pages of data but didn't find a voltage for each block (or it's there and I just don't know what it looks like lol). These are the 17 elements it showed:
    1. Calc load
    2. ECT
    3. MAP
    4. Eng RPM
    5. Veh Speed
    6. IAT
    7. TPS
    8. Run time
    9. Warm up DTC clear
    10. Clr Dist
    11. BARO
    12. ECU Volts
    13. Ambient
    14. ACC pedal D
    15. ACC Pedal E
    16. Clr Time
    17. BAT_PWR (only think I can see related to battery- but doesn't allow me to clik on it)- This reading was 24.7%
    Since I can't test much unil the scanner been looking into every single one of these PID and making sure they're in the norm for my car.


    Also, I'd like your opinion as well as ChapmanF on this question; obviously I will not hold anyone accountable if something happens lol it's more for information as I'm not a mechanic :

    ''The car drives fine with the code on, I know obviously I should avoid driving as much as possible, but is there an inherent risk in doing so you think? Cause I won't have access to another car so wondering if travelling 25km about 3 times a week will be the end of the world lol (n)''

    Thanks again!!
     
  13. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    Sorry, I was thinking that there were 17 pages of freeze frame data, and you only uploaded a few of those pages. But I now see that there are 17 parameters in the freeze frame data, and all of them are shown in the pictures. I know that if you look at the freeze frame data for code P0A80 using TechStream, the 14 battery blocks will be listed.

    I am not a mechanic, just a retired guy who has too much time on hand, so I post on this forum.
    In my opinion, I think you can continue to use the car, but do not drive it very far from home just in case it leaves you stranded.
     
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  14. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Going to wait for dr prius and if ever it's not helpful or whatever I already looked into TS. I just hope badly I can fix this on my own and not at 3,000$. I was lready happy when I successfully changed the head gasket thanks to you guys and saved over 10k (no garage wanted to gasket obviously so they all wanted engine replacement), so really hoping I can be just as lucky this time!!
     
  15. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    I am surprised that you are having problems with the HV battery already, especially with the low mileage on your car.

    You should be able to replace the HV battery without much problem. The hardest part would be lifting it out of the car and putting it on a work bench. In the USA, you can buy a new HV battery from the parts department of some dealerships for about $2000. You might want to call your local dealership and ask if they would sell one to you and what the price is. Note that prices will vary between dealerships for the same part, so you need to call or search online for the best price.
     
    #35 Brian1954, Mar 15, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2024
  16. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    I'm surprised too!! And yeah I checked but a lot of the 'cheaper' hybrid batteries are in USA only :( Here one directly from dealer is about 3500, but I did find a shop that does repairs on hybrid batteries.

    I'm really anxious to get the Dr Prius reader cause I mean, I'm asking myself if it's possible that there isn't even a problem with the HV battery and maybe its the whole relay system communicating with the battery.
    Do you think if I end up changing the battery or one cell hopefully, would it be worth changing the ECU since it can be easily bought for like 200$ and easily set up
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    While a variety of different things can go wrong with the battery, Toyota provided a variety of trouble codes to identify those different things. The conditions that set P0A80 are fairly specific to reduced performance of the battery modules.
     
  18. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Called my toyota dealership yesterday and since I know a mechanic there, I was able to ask him quite a few questions 'for free'. He said easiest thing to do right now would be to first change the ECM. He said although the P0A80 code is often meaning a defective hybrid battery, he said a defective ECM could potentially cause the P0A80 code. Since it took a while to come back and that a majority of my other codes all stem from the ECM (including the P0607 I got a few months back, he suggested changing this in the meantime, and then getting the battery tested per cell.
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You may have misheard him, or he may be simply clueless, or talking you into spending money on unrelated things.

    The ECM (engine control module) has no responsibility for setting codes about the traction battery. Your P0A80 code is set by a completely different computer in the car, the power management control ECU. The code is based on information from another separate unit, the Battery Smart Unit, located inside the battery. (In previous generations that was called the battery ECU and had its own bus address; in gen 3 it's pared down to just a voltage and current sensor with a private serial link to the power management control ECU.)

    My first thought would have been that the dealer mechanic meant one of those two units, and you misunderstood him to be saying ECM. But then he also brought the P0607 into it, and that code does come from the ECM, so maybe he really was mixing the different ECUs up, either because he doesn't know better, or to get you to spend some extra money. Hard to tell.
     
  20. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    I don't know, maybe it's different in the states, but I've heard that here in Canada at least, ECU and ECM are used quite synonomously. Like even on the Toyota parts website for my area in Canada, a replacement ECU is classified under this title: engine control unit (ECU)/engine control module (ECM) so I assumed he was just talking about the ECU the whole time, even though he said ECM lol