Featured The 2024 Toyota Crown May Just Be the World’s Greatest Luxury Car

Most of the plain old hybrids are using Li-ion, and have for some time. Toyota is the only one still using NiMH in some models.

 

We don't know what we don't know. But what we do know is the lithium chemistry was used as early as 2011 in Chevy Volt and some of the early/less efficient gen 1models have over 200,000 miles (EDIT: oops, once again trollbait has beat me to the punch )
That said, nickel metal hydride is heavier & more costly than lithium chemistries
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The problem with used hybrids is not longevity, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get a bad one.
With any used vehicle there is some risk.
As we see here all the time, if a car needs repair, it’s just a matter of skill level of the owner.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a gasser, hybrid, phev or ev.

 

Why did my pip have an evse and onboard charger?

 

Public Evse's serves to charge when you are out & about on the road - supplying 208 or 240v. Mini portable units are designed primarily for 120 volt .... not as practical for quicker charging on 208 or 240v - much less, higher amperage.
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I briefly test drove a Crown (base or mid-spec model with the standard hybrid but not the Max drivetrain) and I actually found it less refined than expected in around-town driving. I found it nice for an upper spec Toyota, but not really living up to its price as a "luxury" car.

The drivetrain is good but not great, and doesn't like being hurried. I don't know if it's a gearing thing or a throttle response issue, but it doesn't feel or sound expensive, and the buzziness of the engine feels more like an economy car drivetrain rather than a lively sport sedan or a sedate cruiser. This character changes on the highway and it feels smooth and the drivetrain is fine. The overall problem is that it feels like a compromise between a family crossover, a sport sedan, and a luxury cruiser, and it's not really convincing as any of these for the price. Maybe it would be a different experience with the Max model, or maybe it would be better after getting to know the car, but my initial impression was really underwhelming. Having also recently driven other Toyota hybrids and PHEVs to compare, this car would probably be so much better with a PHEV system for city driving.

Pluses:

• It's not actually a crossover. It's just a big sedan with a tiny bit more ground clearance and overall height.
• The screen integration and controls are excellent and are very similar to the 2023 Prius.
• Front end styling looks great and suits the car well.
• It feels more like a luxury car on the highway – super smooth and gains composure missing around town. Engine quiets down when not pushed.
• It accelerates more than fast enough for daily driving.
• Rear seats seemed comfortable.
• Interior quality mostly meets expectations for the price. Not as much glossy piano black plastic as on other cars, which is great.

Minuses:

• It's a sedan. This car will make way more sense as a wagon when the Crown Signia launches, both in practicality and justification for its oversized body.
• Why isn't it a liftback design? This is a form over function problem, but the car would make so much more sense if it looked exactly the same but turned that trunk into a liftable hatch. Other big sellers have used this design – just market it as a sport utility coupe or something.
• The interior should feel way more spacious than it does for its size. Exterior is full-sized and interior is mid-sized at best (though great leg room).
• Entry to the car is OK, but it feels a bit awkward in a tight parking spot, like the doors are way too big and the windows are too short (requiring angling to get in). I think this might be a result of the car not being as tall for passenger ingress as one might expect from the appearance and the "on paper" measurements, and having oversized doors from its huge length.
• Visibility is extremely poor in all directions. Even worse than I thought it would be. This makes the car feel more cramped than it actually is.
• Two-tone paint looks weird in person and seems to be an attempt to hide the ungainly proportions of the car. Not all models have this look. The models without the two-tone paint might make the rear of the car look even more awkward.
• Front bumper area looks prone to damage and wear (kind of like modern Lexus models).
• Absolutely massive wheels/tires are going to be really expensive to maintain and repair and probably contribute to a mediocre ride in city driving on rough roads. Those wheels look impressive but they are a complete liability from an owner's perspective.
• Suspension is relatively well composed around town but is not smooth like a luxury car. It's better on the highway, but not as good as it should be on rough city streets.
• Engine can get loud(ish) and passes on more vibrations to the cabin than it should be when pushed. The level of noise would make more sense if the car felt lively under acceleration, but it really wants to be driven easy.

 

There are four types of the new Crown. What we now have is what Toyota calls the Crossover. Yes, it is a sedan, but the Sedan type has lower ground clearance. Aside from styling, they appear to share the same body. Making one a liftback isn't a small under taking. Considering the other types are the Sport(hatchback) and Estate(wagon/Signia), there isn't much need for a liftback in the line up.

The primary market for it is Japan. They may not have made any adjustments to the suspension and other areas for North America. The cabin volume is about the same as the Camry's; it might be smaller inside than the Avalon.

 

I never thought I'd love a Toyota more than I loved my mother-in-laws' 3rd Gen Avalon. (Around 2005). When I would go home on vacation, I'd ask to drive that beaut a LOT! Quiet and that seat was amazingly comfortable!
But the Crown might just beat it....but I, still, have to ride in one to be sure. I wouldn't like to be replacing those 19" or 21" tires though....big bucks no whammies!!

 

Yes, to a degree. It depends on the car too. There's a big difference between a $2,000 JDM engine that will last 400,000 miles if you change the oil and keep the EGR cooler clean vs. a $6,000 Ford transmission ($9,000 with labor, used ones don't exist because they die so often) that will maybe last another 100,000 miles.

On the Prius I need to replace the engine, HV battery and catalytic converter and can do it but don't have the time or money for it.

 

I get that. I’m evaluating it as-is. Some markets prefer sedans – the US used to be one of them.

In previous iterations of big family or personal cars, manufacturers made sedans, liftbacks, and estate variants of the exact same car. Let’s use the Ford Mondeo as a reference point. It was sold as a sedan as the Contour in the US, but it could have also been sold as a liftback or estate, but it wasn’t. In the case of the Crown, a liftback would improve the car since it feels cramped for a mid-size to full-size car, and it would fix the smaller trunk. It would be a straight improvement and could have been made instead of the sedan and had the same exact look as the sedan.

To use another reference point, the Tesla Model S is perceived by Americans as a sedan, but it’s actually a liftback. The Tesla Model 3 has a similar appearance but is a sedan (presumably to allow for its roof design), and is worse for it.

I’d have the same criticism of the 2023 Prius redesign as I do for the new Crown if it had the same profile as it does now but if it lost the hatch. The Crown has such a short boot that it could have been designed with a hatch in the first place, opening up the passenger interior and creating a bigger opening for loading.

From my perspective, all sedans could be replaced by liftbacks and estates and I’d be ecstatic, but it’s OK if not everyone agrees with that.

 

The Crown, historically, is an important model to Toyota as their main sedan; the Corolla and Camry take their names from it. There was always going to be a sedan model. I can't say how popular sedans are in Japan, but Toyota is a traditionalist company, so they wouldn't ditch the Crown sedan.

I think a liftback would have made more sense for the Crossover type, like the Accord Crosstour. Developing one would lead to higher costs though. It is a bigger door, with more glass, than what a hatchback or wagon use. That means more weight, which leads to stronger struts and reinforcing of the hinge area; no sharing parts with the hatch or wagon. It is those extra costs that lead to the Model 3 being a sedan instead of a liftback as the Model S.

It was also coming to the US to replace the Avalon. That model was more popular with older customers, who were moving to SUVs for the higher seat height. The Crossover would have that to compete vs the Sedan. The Sedan might also be FWD only. Plus, the Crossover has more to distinguish it from the Camry.

Then Toyota tried a liftbackish Camry with the first Venza. Like the aforementioned Crosstour, it did not sell well. Liftbacks generally aren't popular. Most opting to ditch the trunk chose a wagon like cargo space.

 

There are pros and cons to every design.

I like aerodynamic shapes. A lot of people think the Rivian R3 will be super efficient. But seeing how it's basically the same shape as the R1S, which has a coefficent of drag of 0.30 (IIGC, if I googled correctly) compared to 0.219 of a Tesla Model 3, I don't see how it's going to be "insanely efficient."

Curvier, longer, shorter; those are the the usuall designs with better aerodynamics. If you want more space, a longer vehicle is more aerodynamic than a taller or wider one.

But then you have to weigh that against practicality. Everybody's needs are different, although sometimes their choices don't reflect their needs. Back in 2008 the Mazda 6 Wagon had more interior space for both passengers and cargo, more power and acceleration, got better fuel mileage and cost less than the Mazda CX5 that ended up replacing it in the USA. But on the other extreme, an Aptera would be much more aerodynamic, but isn't going to fullfil the needs of eveyone.

To me I like shorter cars because sometimes I like to access the roof (washing, amateur radio antennas, cargo box when needed, etc.). I also like having a dedicated trunk and not a shared cabin cargo space since 1) a trunk is safer since it comparmentalizes the cargo from the cabin and 2) depending on the lid (preferrably a sedan's lid), it can make for a good secondary ground plane for VHF/UHF amateur radio antennas.

 

agreed, that's your experience. plenty of people here are quoted $10,000. for a new engine, and have no alternative except to sell.
otheres tear it down and rebuild it for cheap. everyones situation is different, but used cars are used cars.
thebiggest difference i see is that every mech works on gassers, but not hybrids or ev's. so the repair options are limited

 

Isn't that what they put in in the last forum upgrade??

 

The Car Care Nut has got your back:

How to make your Toyota Last Over 300k Miles without Major Repairs

 

If I'm going to do something then I'm going to do it the right way. You can't rebuild a modern vehicle's engine. The Prius' engine is unrebuildable. Cylinders should not be rehoned, much less bored and rehoned. People buying rebuilt modern engines are getting scammed.

My experience with mechanics is they are becoming fewer, more expensive and less trustworthy while cars are becoming harder to repair. The last time I got an oil change at a shop it somehow ended up being over $600. No more mechanic shops for me. My radio doesn't work and I have no way of fixing it, so oh well. The only thing I take my car in for is to have the brake fluid flushed, which I can't do propperly because I don't have a subscription to TIS nor a Mongoose, which paying several thousand dollars just for the Mongoose and a few days subscription for TIS every 3 year or so seems like a rip off. But I don't want to end up like some other Toyota owners I know that end up with, at best, frozen brake calipers, and at worst, bad brake control units.

 

That seems to be the new norm. Cars these days are disposable. For my next car I often leap between wanting a newer car that hopefully won't need too much work or a classic that I know I can work on. I miss my 1972 VW. The engine was a cinch to rebuild and I could easily remove it and install it by myself in no time at all. And the car actually looked good, unlike the new Crown. What am I doing here in the Crown thread anyway?

 

The amount of rebuilding actually required has declined along with the amount of rebuilding actually performed.

As long as the "rebuilt" engine is delivering the right amount of utility and the rebuilder is still able to put food on the table, this is more or less okay.

Keep in mind that a rebuild used to be necessary to get your car from the 50k mark to the 75k mark.

Disposable yes... but they also seem to last 15 years and 200k before that disposal.

Older cars mostly never hit those totals in the first place and needed a heck of a lot more labor just to get close.

 

Full size non luxury cars is a dying market in the US. Crossovers have taken over this part of the market. I guess it makes sense for toyota to drop one from its list the avalon and keep the lexus ES. I'm not sure where this thing fits. It doesn't have the luxury of Mercedes S or BMW 7 series, but it is much less expensive and has better fuel economy.

Sure but a better example is the tesla model Y which is a top seller. It is a lifted more bubble shaped model 3 platform vehicle with slight increase in dimensions and a hatchback. It like the crown is a mix between a crossover and a sedan, but the Y makes much more sense in the US market.

People like to have a secure trunk. The model Y and model S has a secure frunk ;-) I agree for the american market the crown should have a hatch, but camry, corola, lexus es, model 3 are good with trunks.

 

That depends on the car (and by car I also am including pickups and SUV's and such).

I've now seen several cars that have had a major, thousands of dolars problem at under or around 100,000 miles. Like $9,000 for a transmission at just around 100,000 miles. Car companies don't care if their cars last after the warrenty. I'd never buy another used Toyota again unless I knew for certain the oil was changed every 5,000mi/6months or less. But everyone is going for yearly oil changes and that is causing major engine damage long before 200,000 miles. 1980 and 1990's cars used to last until 200,000 miles. I'm not seeing this in 2020's cars.

The other problem right now is that used cars are still priced like they're going to last a lot more than 200,000 miles. A lot of models it seems you can't find on for less than 1/4 of the inicial price even if it has 200,000 miles on it. People are paying $15,000 or more on a $25,000 MSRP vehicle and then needing a $9,000 or $11,000 repair not long after that.