Featured Apple iCar BEV coming in 2028, downgraded to SAE Level 2+

wow... level 2+ only? And still 4 years to go. Thats what I would call the opposite of ambitious. Level 2+ might be the standard in most cars soon. Even the Prius Prime has kinda limited 2+ already...

 

Who knows where Tesla will be that far in the future. By that time, how many car miles will Apple have used to prove/improve their system? And compared to Tesla?

 

Level 2 starts at ACC and LTA. 2+ is a recent designation that allows some more advanced features. Level 3 is only allowed in California and Nevada at this time. Even if available in more states, there is probably a higher cost to certifying the system for public roads. Mercedes will be offering Level 3 in those states.

 

and of course, there's the rest of the car

 

Thats not correct, at least to that scale Prius with TJA is closer to Level 2+ (even for limited applications) and Tesla is just 2 as they dont support hands free driving. Hands free driving doesnt need much extra hw as well besides internal driver monitoring which new cars must have anyway (in EU).

People often overlook that, in addition to stringent safety regulations - a huge aspect of Level 3 is liability. So level 2+ (an inofficial term) is more a way to chicken out of Level 3 while still trying to market that you are better than Level 2.

 

Copilot is all Level 2 is suppose to be.

 

I use TSS 2.0 as an assist on 4 lane divided well marked highways to reduce my fatigue on longer trips. Head up and hands on always. Have no desire for it to drive for me in cities or twisting rural roads. Having been involved with computers, I just can't see an assist being error free for 20 years and 200k miles which is my standard. I'm lucky to achieve that.

I guess TSS 2.0 as level 2 is good enough for me.

 

Eveyone their opinion but you cannot make up stuff about SAE Levels according to your feelings.

Toyota sensors are actually pretty good - much better than any Tesla on the road (after all they barely have sensors to begin with for cost cutting reasons). The AI is very conservative but I guess thats how you would expect it from Toyota.

 

You made up a new "Gokhan level definition" while the Prius is at least Level 2 according to official definitions (with a hint of 2+ accroding to inofficial ones):

 

I can’t even see out of the backup cam if it’s raining

 

The goal of the SAE levels is not to allow comparison between different manufacturer systems. SAE DC Level 1 and 2 charging different kW charging rates to define which a charger falls into, but not every car, nor charger is capable of the max rate. These are broad categories to ease discussion and regulation.

If a car has DCC and LTA, it has Level 2 ADAS.

Level 2+ exists because manufacturers don't want to pay the price for Level 3, either in hardware or liability; or a jurisdiction does not allow it. Yet the manufacturer wants to release some features that would fall under Level 3. TJA on the Prius Prime is a Level 3 ability, but Toyota doesn't want to be the one responsible if it crashes. So it is called a Level 2+.

 

Assigning charging levels to car models by some individual's perception is just as silly as what you did with ADAS levels.

Post some marketing material by someone actually using those terms.

This was at your link.

What is the example feature of Level 3?

TJA is a Level 3 feature as it does drive the car on its own under limited circumstances. You not thinking it is a useful feature doesn't negate that. Toyota doesn't want to go through the steps of qualifying TSS 3.0 with TJA as Level 3, so it is Level or 2+ depending on what they feel like calling it.

Aslo at the link, "The industry’s interest in broadening the L2 space — at the risk of blurring some definitions — came as no surprise to the industry experts who mapped out SAE’s six-level AD taxonomy. They created J3016 (see chart) as a “living” document to be updated and modified to keep pace with technology and regulations. "

These Levels were purposely broad when created as the autonomous car field was still young. The goal was to ease discussion on the topic instead of having to learn the in house terms and goals of every party involved on the topic. It changing overtime is not unexpected. The charging level ones did.

The SAE document detailing the ADAS levels is available for free for those that care to down load it.
J3016_202104: Taxonomy and Definitions for Terms Related to Driving Automation Systems for On-Road Motor Vehicles - SAE International