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My car needs some A.I.

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Paul Gregory, Feb 11, 2024.

  1. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    To my way of thinking, the car should be able to learn from the times I have to intervene.
    When it sees a patch of snow or the shadow of some trees, it seems to go to the right and head for the ditch. One should think that it should keep at least steering straight, until it can reacquire its bearings.

    I can understand that my car was made in the wake of covid, and it may have been rushed to market with a few too many bugs, and there may be future over the air updates, but I think they owe it to their customers to tell us straight about these shortcomings. It seems like they have adopted the habits of Apple, where they don't admit any faults and tell the customers almost nothing.
     
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  2. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

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    My Prime has never exhibited any of those behaviors.
     
  3. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    Are you going hands free with LKA?
     
  4. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

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    Yes but only during the times when I'm on the open freeway when it's not congested. I have also found when not using LKA, the car would sometimes want to make a minor correction but never to the right towards a ditch. Shadows and snow never seem to affect it.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Toyota and most (all) manufacturers are like that
     
  6. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    Just today, I was driving home on a two-lane road with a bit of snow cover, and the car wandered over the yellow dotted line on my left and was in the other lane before I brought it back into my own lane. There was no traffic, so it was just a test.
    The other annoying thing was a message that said the system had shut down; "See operator's manual." I parked, and cleaned a tiny speck of snow off the front, right proximity sensor, and all was well again.
    Seems like the responses to less than ideal conditions are a bit extreme.
     
  7. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    You seem to be pushing the system beyond the claimed abilities. From the manual


    I'd say it certainly works beyond those conditions, but they're absolutely not overstating what it can do.
     
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  8. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

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    Maybe what is needed is a bit more OI (Operator Intelligence?). ;)
     
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  9. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    My expectations tend to be set by what is possible in competitive products. My 2012 Gen 3 was barely able to meet the minimum requirements for most of the systems, and I think I am seeing the same thing here. They may technically reach the bar, but they certainly do not seem to exceed it. But it is what it is, and I'll live with it.
     
  10. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

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    That sounds reasonable at first but certifying a self-learning system for a critical component like Level 2 autonomous driving, which demands the highest safety level (ASIL D), is extremely challenging and no one would take the risk in the first place.

    Just imagine the system learning from "unsafe" driving behaviour...

    Even if at some point learning could be introduced within safe parameters, Toyota would probably one of the last one :rolleyes:
     
  11. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    That sounds to me like taking away user judgment, and substituting it with rote programming.
     
  12. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

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    Thats nothing new though - especially when it comes to safety. And not just the safety of the driver but anyone participating around you as well - might be a child jumping in front of the car as well.
     
  13. Blackat

    Blackat Active Member

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    You sound dangerous. Glad you're not in Colorado
     
  14. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I've driven over 50 years without an accident. I don't need nanny technology to keep me safe.
     
  15. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

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    I don't think I'll live long enough to see an actual self-driving feature that can be fully trusted. I mean what's the point of using it if you can't trust it.
     
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  16. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I don't think any of us should expect a car to drive itself unmonitored by the driver.
    But better AI means more safety and fewer crashes.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    None of these are self driving. Just driver aids that ease the mental load most of the time. There are times they won't help, but I'm guessing most crashes with them stem from people treating them as self driving.

    Actual self driving on all public roads and under all conditions is a hard problem. You might see it for limited applications. Ford's and GM's geofenced to highway systems are pretty close to it.
     
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  18. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

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    Youre not the only one driving in this world though.
    Yea so far most systems are marketed as "assistance" co-existing with the driver that can be easily overwritten (unless edge or more safety relevant cases). Like in the Prius.
    Only Tesla walks around with a different philosophy and partly wild (marketing) claims - and at least in Europe the "Autopilot" turns off right away if you give some manual steering input, eg for changing lanes.
     
  19. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    This recent trend to "loss of latitude" in what we are allowed to do does not sit well with me.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What cars have driver assist systems that can't be turned off?
    Traction and stability control are mandatory, and even those can be turned off in most cars.