drain the gas tank?

I have to replace the rusted fuel filler pipe. I looks like I can do that without taking the tank down, but maybe not? Anyone done this? Can I drain it without taking the tank down? The fuel neck appears to have a connection accessible through the wheel well that's a simply hose clamp. Can I drain it out that pipe?

 

OK, took the fuel filler neck off my parts car to replace this rusted one. Pretty easy. Just jack the car up on the rear passenger side, and put a jack stand under it - you might have to shake the car a little and want it steady. Take the tire off.

Look up in the wheel well, and you'll see the three fuel lines bundled together at the neck and held by brackets bolted to the upper inner fender, the lower inner fender (2 bolts), and under the car, with a bracket mounted on the body (not sure, this one might have been another hose and was just in the way - easy to take off). All those are 10mm except one at the lower inner fender which is 12mm. None are especially hard to reach.

Outside, in the gas tank door, the rubber boot just slips over the filler neck. Once you have the boot off and all the brackets/bolts out, it should be left hanging by the hoses. They're all held on by standard hose clamps - the filler neck hose as a 10mm screw clamp and the other two are just squeeze clamps. Mine were easy to loosen/remove and the hoses came off easily after running the pick up under the hose to unseal it from it's connector pipe.

Honestly, jacking the car and taking off the tire was the hardest part. If I had a lift, I wouldn't even have to do that - everything would be right there. A half hour job at most for anyone who's done it once before. Oops, I make it an hour for the tech putting the new one back on and smoking a cigarette.

Which is very disappointing. Because the dealership wanted almost $500 to do the job. The part is only $160 new.

It's raining today, and the project car is outside, so I still have to swap this one onto that car, so I'll have an hour and a half into it before I'm done, with a free part from my free parts car.

I guess I should go ahead and scavenge that fuel tank out of the parts car. The fuel pump on these cars have been know to fail from my reading here, and they're a PITA and expensive because they're built into the tank. Guess I ought to take the one out of my other parts car too. Someone will need one. I'll update.

 

Did you go to the drive-in movie first? They like that.

 

I'm at a standstill on the two cars I'm working on until I can scan codes. I got a request into BAFX customer service for a recommedation for these cars but haven't heard back. Does anyone have anything besides TechStream that works, even if just for pulling codes?

The short history of this car was that I drove it fine for 3000m back from an auction by way of LA. Almost home, we hit our first rain and shortly there after, it starts missing badly and we had to trailer it home. But it drove in/out of the trailer, and into the storage space. Since then, it's sputtered/ran for awhile at idle. Gave fuel tank codes. Found the filler neck almost rusted in two.

Now, 6 months later, with new 12v battery, I got the battery and car symbols when I tried to start it. I assume the HV battery has died, but want to read the codes to be sure.

 

OK, I did get a couple of codes with a cheapo scanner - a P1259 and a P3030. Haven't researched them yet. Funny thing is, it seems like I got that 1259 on the three Prii I tried. It may just be the scanner doesn't erase them since they're all set up as the same car.

 

In this episode, Our Hero has replaced the filler neck assembly, which comprises three fuel/vapor? hoses. When I tried to start it, I got battery codes, triangle, and symbol. So, I swapped in one of my spare batteries, and it fired right up and went to Ready idling smoothly, for several seconds, long enough that I thought I fixed it. Then it just as smoothly died. Tried again, same again. Third time throws the triangle and a 3191.

This is a step forward, or at least a step regained. Before replacing the filler neck, it had progressed (from just trying to start it many times) to not even trying to kick ICE on. Before that, if would start but miss badly, bucking and moaning before it died. Now, it seems to run fine for several seconds and just stops.

What do y'all think about this hypothesis? The leaky filler neck let water in the fuel and/or allowed the fuel system to loose vacuum pressure/whatever so it couldn't pump fuel. Maybe in that order - originally started missing on the highway from water, and over time lost its vacuum (I "discovered" the rustiness while breaking the neck worse). I've put water-remover in the tank.

But, what if it has air in the lines from those three hoses I swapped, or the previous vacuum loss? Is it possible that I need to check fuel pressure, or first, simply turn the key on and off multiple times. That's what I do on my diesel trucks, which require frequent changing of the two fuel filters. Before restarting, I have to turn it on and let the fuel pump run until it times out - maybe 15 seconds, then turn it off and do that two more times to ensure all the fuel lines are re-pressurized. This car acts like turning the key on pumps some fuel into the lines, and it starts and runs nicely, but in a few seconds, in hits air in the lines and dies quietly. It doesn't seem to miss on any cylinders, and according to the cheapo scanner I borrowed doesn't throw those codes.

However, I'm worried about running the hybrid battery down too far trying to diagnose/start this car. It shows the last battery bar now from mostly sitting several months. It was strong when I drove the car back to Houston from Denver around Aug/Sept, and I've driven it a few feet in my storage lot a few times since then. It didn't throw a code now. I'm confident it's good and just needs to be driven a few miles to charge up. Maybe I need to re-swap it into a running car and use that battery to work on this car. That's ust a bit of work. I'd rather just make this one start.

So, if trying to pump up the pressure doesn't work, where do y'all think I should begin if I assume that water in the fuel caused the problem? I can drain the tank for sure, or most of it at least and fill it with fresh. Would water in fuel burn out injectors next? Or plugs? Clog up the throttle body or something? That useless 3191 doesn't help much.

 

OK, back on this car. It seems like the obvious problem is fuel. Started it again today and jumped out to confirm under the hood that, yes, the ICE is running. Just as smooth and quiet as any of these I've ever seen. For about 15 seconds, then just quietly dies and throws the car symbol and triangle, and sets, I expect, that 3191 code again.

That description fits a fuel pressure issue, and because I just replaced a fuel filler neck, blah, blah, it just seems to be the obvious first check. But, I've never checked the fuel pump before. So, the service manual says to apply power to the pump through two pins in the connector and I should be able to hear it at the fuel line under the hood.

Problem is, I'm almost deaf, and especially for quiet, high-pitched sounds, like electric fuel pumps or the sound of fuel squeezing through a rubber line. I tried the test on the project car and on my running parts car. Inside the car, I couldn't hear any sound coming from the fuel pump of either car. I was using an Innova power probe I have but don't know how to operate. I'm assuming with it connected to the battery, I get 12v+ at its tip when I press the rocker switch. I has a black wire with an alligator clip coming out of the probe that I assume provides the connection to the battery's negative terminal. But, now that I think of it, the battery itself wasn't grounded. Still, the probe lit up and made all its beeps and lights.

So anyway, assuming I was actually powering the pump, then they must not make much noise since I couldn't hear the good one either. The manual said I'd hear fuel in the line, but I couldn't hold the probe and look under the hood at the same time. However, after testing both cars, the known good pump's under-hood fuel line seemed fuller, harder to bend over than my project car, as if was full of pressurized fuel and the project car wasn't.

So, that seems to make sense, although I wish I could hear either the pump or the line to confirm. What doesn't make sense is why the car seems to keep starting and running fine those 15 seconds. If there is no fuel pressure, you'd think it'd have burnt whatever fuel was left in the engine by now. And, if it's just low fuel pressure, you'd think it would sputter and buck as it died, and not just quietly, smoothly come to a stop.

It makes me wonder if it's still not a case of air in the lines, from the original rusty filler neck and then from me switching that out. But, even that seems like it would throw a code. Granted, since my BAFX quit connecting I've only checked it once and found just the 3191.

Any ideas? Maybe better testing, hardwire the pump so I can be squeezing the line under the hood. Is there any problem runniing the pump continuous like that without the engine running? I assume it shuts off at max pressure, or do I need to have the key ON while doing the test (I've been leaving it off).

 

Thanks. Maybe so, it cleared and didn't come back last time I checked. I need to get my new BAFX in. Hate flying blind, although it's acting exactly the same at this point, over and over, so I don't think there's new codes.

 

I'm kinda back to Step 1 on this car. Checked the fuel pump again today and seem to have the opposite results from yesterday - the fuel line under the hood was easy to bend, ran the pump from inside the car and rechecked, and I could feel a noticeable difference, like the line was now pressurized, just like the parts car. I also checked the resistance on that connector and it's within spec.

i tried to shift into Neutral after starting to see if that would let it run longer, but that kills the ICE immediately. I shifted to N before the ICE even started and it never would start. Leaving key ON and shifting back to Park and the ICE fires up, but then dies as before.

On the positive side, the HV battery actually gained a bar from this testing, so maybe those short runs are enough to keep it from draining.

The only other things mentioned in the manual are fuses, relays, etc. and it says to "check injectors" at one point. I'm thinking that all those things must be OK since it does start and run perfectly for 15 seconds. Any suggestions of what to look at would be appreciated. It's almost like there's an ON-OFF switch they way it dies so quietly.