Featured Why Are Hyundai's EVs So Good? And Why Are Toyota's So Bad?

I'm seeing some Nissan commercials in Japan and it looks like they may be the 'odd man out.' As for the other Japanese manufactures, let them find their own way.

Bob Wilson

 

the two companies have different visions for the future. only one can be right, but there's still time...

 

Toyota as we speak is in the last stages of final preparation for mass production of a very nice American Made EV in its TMMK Plant in Kentucky. It will come out under the Lexus brand with an American made EV battery from its own North Carolina Battery Plant. Look for it at towards the end of the year in 2024.

Saw a bZ4 at a Toyota Dealership in the last month - simply outstanding car - I would buy one in a minute if I was in the market- outstanding manufactures price right now with incentives.
One of the nicest new cars I've seen in a long time.

Prius Prime still one of the most efficient battery powered vehicle made- great price - great utility- great vehicle -close to 600 mile gas range and over 40 mile electrical range one of the best engineered vehicles available.

If you bought a Prius Prime - had a Level 2 charger in your garage and plugged the vehicle in whenever it wasn't being used - very easy to go over 100 miles a day in all electric mode.

Can't beat Toyota reliability and engineering.
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars? - Consumer Reports
"Lexus, Toyota, and Mini are the three most reliable brands in this year’s annual auto reliability brand rankings, with the two Japanese brands swapping spaces from last year. "

 

That upcoming Lexus is the one the article is comparing to the Genesis. The only thing that would get me to test drive one is the optional steering yoke.
The bZ4X that are 'near' me are all listed for around MSRP.
The issue with Toyota BEVs isn't that they are bad cars. It is that they don't compete against their competitors. Shorter range, slower charge time, worse performance, worse efficiency. Most or all those describe the Toyota in the comparison. Which could be overlooked if they were lower priced, but they aren't.

 

The most reliable? I was filing some papers just this morning and was struck by how many Recalls and Customer Support Program letters I was filing on my 2019 Rav4. Only two unfixed but warranty extended (Cablegate, roof rails). My wife's 2021 Avalon hybrid has none that I know of. So I have mixed reviews.

 

In addition to the previous Consumer Reports naming Toyota/Lexus as the most reliable vehicles
These are the most reliable cars, according to J.D. Power - The Manual
Lexus #1 /Toyota #7 of all the Automakers in the world.
Previous mentioned article
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars? - Consumer Reports

Most of the bZ4 incentives expire at the end of January 2024 - here is an example of what an astute buyer could have taken advantage of:
2023 Toyota bZ4X Deals, Incentives & Rebates for January 2024 | Edmunds
The local Dealer for some reason was also including an additional $2500 . Probably because very few EV's sell in this part of the United States - but the price was approaching that of a Bolt if you took advantage of the offers.
The single nicest car I had seen in many years.

Note: the article says Incentives for 2023 but if you look at the listing you will see they extend into January 2024 and Toyota may issue even more rebates after February.

I trust my instincts and research when buying vehicles - internet posters would not be in that mix- if I had been looking for a new vehicle when I saw the bZ4 I would have bought it.

 

I didn’t see a net price in the Edmund’s link, but when I was looking last summer, the cheapest bz around here was 50k after mass $3500. Tax credit.
Yet edmunds and others would Always start with the base model which was never available.
I paid $22,500. For my bolt after credits and before sales tax

 

Around here the starting price for the bZ4 is around $44,000 with no incentives applied yet. Checking the inventory for areas within 100 miles of us I see the starting MSRP for bZ4 ranging from $42,000 to $56,000 with many offerings in between those two price points.
2024 Toyota bZ4X | Toyota.com

I think that is nationwide pricing: higher grade models = higher prices.

I mentioned before in our area of the United States I'm not sure if you would find any takers for EV's if they were giving them away for free, that may affect local pricing.

I like EV's and would buy one that is why I pay attention to the pricing locally even though I am hopefully 5 years away from buying a new vehicle.

 

Toyota's site does not have the $2500 cash offer listed. There is a 2.99% finance one for those with excellent credit. Not sure how much of a deal that is. The $7500 for the lease is the federal tax credit. If any EV lease doesn't include that, walk away. Meanwhile, the Ioniq 5 gets $7500 for Hyundai or 0.99% financing.

Toyota does have a better track record in regards to reliability, but they aren't above mistakes. Remember the bZ4X was subject to a stop sale because the wheels fell off. Then Hyundai also has a good reliability rating these days.

 

Toyota's previous management, for some reason, was resisting the company's move into the EV market.

The result is only a half-hearted stab at an EV. If it weren't for Tesla, I think the entire automobile industry wouldn't be producing a viable EV at all.

 

maybe Toyota did the estimate by utilizing some of its 7kwh buffer? Usable is only 64kWh.

That might be why it can't hit the epa. Over the years iirc, Nissan faced a class action when they puffed their epa unreasonably. Toyota is likely still tweaking their software - like GM.
Anywho ... the other range killer (from same article) is when it comes with larger rims. That knocks range down to 196 miles. That means in snowy slushy frosty winters &/or mountain driving - you can kiss off another (conservative estimate from experience) 20% of your range .... leaving you with 156ish range. Prudent EV folks hope to never cut it so close that you come w/in the last 20 miles of empty ... which would mean you better have a charge spot somewhere on the horizon after you've driven only 136 miles in rough weather.
All that ... and $60K - $65K before delivery/prep etc.

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despite toyota speak regarding ev's, akio still rules with an iron grip:

Is Toyota's chairman losing it? says EVs will only reach 30% share, ignoring Norway, China

 

That's left to be seen. Kona had two recalls for battery fire

Ioniq5 has a class action for the charge port overheating while level 2 charging.

The newest EV9 12V battery are already dying (something that plags all their EV)

We don't know yet if their E-GMP charging curve will have a detrimental effect in their battery life.

Personally, I'm staying away at Hyundai/KIA/Genesis for their EV (well, all their vehicles). They already had enough problems with their ICE that I don't trust them with their EV.

 

Sooo ..... it's 9k for Toyota to have weak points because Hyundai has them as well?
ok
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Doesn't even have a firm date for production release yet.
2024 Kia EV9 Vehicle Overview | Dyer KIA Lake Wales, FL
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Might wait before we judge or pull the plug on Toyota - there could be a good reason they feel the way they do

Tesla warns of slower volume growth in 2024 after margin falls (msn.com)
"Tesla on Wednesday warned of a notable slowdown in its vehicle sales growth this year, and reported a fall in fourth-quarter gross margin as it cut prices and offered incentives to boost demand."

"In 2024, our vehicle volume growth rate may be notably lower than the growth rate achieved in 2023"
"After years of breakneck growth, Tesla, the world's most valuable automaker, is bracing for slowing growth and margins as EV demand softens"

Wasn't everyone just screaming Hertz should have shown more caution before jumping on the EV trend?

 

From many articles - it more realistically appears production is still humming along .... but it isn't as outrageous as it was earlier. Reframing that as "nobody wants an electric car" is quite the stretch. But what can a manufacturer do if their products aren't cutting the mustard.
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