Featured I don't want an EV. I want an affordable plug-in hybrid that doesn't look stupid. Rocket science?

I agree. That guy is a fool. Same as people buying a 2013 Prius with 175k.

 

If a used 2013 Prius is a foolish decision, I quit! What else is $10,000 going to get a person these days?

The 2013 Prius is one of Consumer Reports' recomended used cars at around $10,000. (Looking at the same price point and around the newest year possible, they also recommend the 2012 Honda Accord, 2013-2014 Mazda 3, 2007-2010 Toyota Avalon, 2008-2013 Toyota Camry and 2010-1015 Toyota Corolla.)

Cars must be for rich folk that make way more than a median wage.

 

You have to remember how Consumer’s Reports gets their data. They ask members. They have quite a few upscale members who usually buy new and sell by 150k miles. Not the group trying to pinch pennies - the magazine takes no advertising and the subscription is pricey. A group who wants reliability and trades in order to get it. Consumer Reports does look at recalls but not voluntary CSPs like gen3 brake boosters. Only some of the 2010’s had a recall of the brake booster pump.

The reality is Consumers Reports was impressed with the first 150,000 miles of the Prius gen3s based on their methods of new car testing and polled “consumers reports” from new owners until they trade.

Most of those I would recommend for a budget buyer over a gen3 Prius, especially the Accord and Corolla. All cars need major maintenance sooner or later, but those can be repaired at a local shop and have plenty of aftermarket parts if needed.

Avoid Toyotas with 0-20 or 5-20 oil which usually means low tension rings.

 

the edmunds stuff is nonsense. try finding a 2019 tesl model 3 with under 60k for $15,000.

 

Well, I paid less for all three Prius Prime (2017, 2020, 2021) than I paid for the 2015 Gen3 Prius Two.

But those cheap PP days are over now. My next cheap car maybe Bolt EV.

 

bolt deals are getting better everyday. i paid 22k, and see reports of under 20k now.

and pre owned with new batteries after the recall are even better.

an affordable phev? i don't see it happening.

 

That may be good for small town folk, but most people in more populated areas need about 20 to 30 miles of range, or at least I do.

It's gonna be a while before there are going to be abundant numbers of Bolts for sale, whereas they've been selling the Leaf for a dozen years and they're remarkably low priced because of the lack of range.

 

that's the great thing abought the bolt. 250 mile range, but i keep it between 30 and 50%.

depends on where you live possibly. gm has a massive store of recalled bolts that they are slowly releasing.

 

I hope you lose a hundred thumbs up you've earned on here everytime you talk about your Bolt on a Prius forum. You've betrayed us!

 

Yes, but a 30 mile range and still degrading Leaf isn't going to get you those 20 to 30 miles unless you're really good at hypermiling and plugging in at every opportunity and you still risk getting towed one of these days soon.

The Bolt is a supperior EV compared to the Leaf. But there aren't any $3,000 Bolts, which was the point of my previous comment that buying a cheap Leaf probably isn't as good of an idea as it sounds. And that's something I experienced first hand, and never will buy a Leaf ever again.

I've owned a Prius for the past few years that has never run. Does that count?

 

i know, and i feel bad about it. but i don't suppose toyota feels bad about betraying me.

i do still have a hycam, until i can talk mrs b into a tesla.

i never thought i'd become a shill for gm, but i can only report my experience as it happens.

 

Seems pretty clear by all the online evidence that an old Leaf is going to lose some range, worst case scenario down to about 50 miles, which is more than enough range for around town and it would probably turn into me learning battery pack rebuilding for Nissan Leaf which would help me make money.

 

There are plenty of Leafs out there with WAY less than 50 miles. Mind you that my Leaf with 85% of 84 miles (71 miles) died just over 30 miles from where I had charged it, and that wasn't even close to as bad of weather and usage as it could have been. I have a friend with a Leaf, the same year (2013) as mine with the same "lizard battery" which was supposedly better than even the 40kWh batteries, that was never ever quick charged (wasn't an option) and that she charges to only 80%, and it now has only 3 bars left on it (29 miles of range when charged to 100% on a good day)!

My suggestion to anyone is DO NOT BUY A LEAF unless you're absolutely sure you know what you're getting into, or if it's free.

 

Ok:
2023 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds

 

Depends. If it's a worn out and unreliable rust bucket just looking for a place to die, then no, it doesn't. If the rest of the car is mostly working good and ready for its next 100K, then $11K for a reliable car is an excellent price.

 

What's your sense of the leaf rebuilder community... When I looked into it 5 years ago, there weren't enough packs to rebuild from. Do you think that's changed?

 

So you're saying that $11k for a car that only goes 84 miles and in 10 years will only go ~30 miles and that if you get in an accident the day after you pay for all that then insurance hands you over a $3,000 check is an excellent deal?!

I've followed it some, but it doesn't seem to have grown to the point of being economic. Basically there are a few people out there that will put a newer pack in, maybe even one with more range, but it's usually quite expensive.

 

This is the risk you run with any used car. I suspect, your personal experience is coloring your belief about how often this happens.
Didn’t you have a friend who bought a used ICE which then broke and had a multi-thousand dollar bill (or am I misremembering again;-)).

 

Yes, there is a risk with any used car. There's even a risk buying a new car, as you never know when there could be a manufacturing defect, although the warranty usually takes care of that.

But the chances of a used car failing isn't the same amoung every used car. Used cars do have something that new cars don't: The reliaibility data of said model. Some are more reliable than others. Some are cheaper to fix than others too.

The used vehicle that my friends bought was a Ford Escape. The transmission died, but this wasn't something that was completely unavoidable. A quick Google search shows that Ford Escapes are known for failing transmissions. And this isn't the only Ford Escape that I've seen the transmission catastrophically die on. Had they consulted me I would have not recommended the Escape for that very reason:

Most Common Ford Escape Problems & Model Years To Avoid (theautomotivedude.com)

Ford Escape Problems | CarComplaints.com

Take a look at this forum and ask the owners what will most likely go out on a Prius of whatever year from 5 years ago and before. We now have a pretty solid idea of what goes wrong in a Gen 1 or Gen 2 Prius and what it costs to fix it. The same goes for a Gen 3 Prius, and Gen 4 is not that far behind.

We also have a good idea of what can make a car stop working correctly, the kind of thing to look out for when buying a used car. For an example we now know what makes some Toyota engines start burning so much oil and why others don't (it's becaue the owner didn't change the oil on time!). With this kind of knowledge you look for a used car with a stack of maintenance records, and you go through those records before making the purchase. I got the maintenance records for both the VW Golf I had as well as the Toyota Avalon:

Why do Toyota engines consume oil ? And how to prevent it?

So I've see two Nissan Leafs have major problems, both with the battery. Is that just coincidence? There are also many online who have vented their dissatisfaction with Nissan about this very problem. Am I still being biased?

Well, if anyone wants to not take heed to my warning and goes and buys an old Nissan Leaf, when it no longer can take you the places you need to go, don't say I didn't tell you so. And while you're at it, why not get a nice used Ford Escape on the side and see if the transmission doesn't blow well before it hits the 200,000 mile mark.

 

Yes, you are, but not unreasonably so.
The research into statistical failures is a great thing and I applaud you for it.
You are putting you anecdotal evidence on par with that. I personally know 4 Leaf owners, none of which had battery failures.
Do I think battery failures never occur? No, of course not. However, it just shows how anecdotes don’t always give an accurate picture.

Similar to online forums. How often do you see someone post a thread about how their car is working normally?
People are far more likely to post complaints, than praise.

YouTube is even worse, as most videos are more interested in clicks than information. As such, most stuff gets sensationalized. Yes, there are some good content providers out there, but they rarely show up in searches.

I don’t remember any of the sensationalized ones, but Rob Maurer of Tesla Daily is one of the best I have seen.

Research is good, all I am saying is don’t consider anecdotal evidence as strongly as good statistical research.