Slow progress diagnosing red triangle,vsc,(!),check eng, new 12vbatt

I am not quite sure what I am looking at but here is some more information.
I ran a diagnosis , on the ABS ECU, under special functions on the MX808, and got 5 "Uxxxx" codes. One of the codes, U0124, had the snowflake to allow freeze frame, which I did. But I couldn't figure out a neat way to print the results, so just ended up with a photo. The U0124 code had an INF of 319. Is this significant, or is it just another piece in the puzzle?
Thanks, Lloyd

 

More careful scanning with different results.

I thought I would take a slightly different approach today and jumpered another car directly to the terminals on the 12v battery and then left the donor car running during the testing to make sure the 12v batt voltage stayed above 13v.

First thing I did was read the codes to see if they were the same as yesterday, and they were, and then I cleared all the codes with the Autel MX808.

Then I turned the car on and started the engine running, and the RPM was going up and down slightly, but after a minute it smoothed out.

I then cleared and scanned the modules that had fault codes, and some of the newly scanned codes were not the same as yesterday.

Hybrid control P3000 INF 123
ABS C1259, C1310 INF 156
AC B1421,B1442, B1443 (repeating this scan a second time only showed fault B1421.)
Hybrid batt P0A80, P3015Block 5
I repeated these tests a few hours later and the results were the same.

I was able to check the voltages of the 14 blocks and they varied from 16.57 to 16.81, but oddly, block 5 read 17.05

I then ran a "Live" test on the HV batt block voltages and they all bounced around an average of maybe 16.22v, but block 5 was now down at 14.95.

But unlike yesterday, there were no communication errors during the new scanning today. Yesterday afternoon I did do some more re-seating of connectors and maybe that helped. Or maybe having the 12v batt voltage up at 13v helped?

Any thoughts? Still the ABS ecu and the HV battery pack, or at least block 5?

Thanks,
Lloyd

 

For the first try, I will go for just replacing the module. I have read about the balancing and equalizing and realize it can be a long process and a PITA, but we can just see what kind of success I have. Later on, if everything else in the car is reasonably good, I might go for the full battery pack.

5 years ago, I converted a golf cart from lead-acid to use 7 modules from a Nissan Leaf. The test rig charged the 7 module pack at a 5 amp rate and discharged at a 30 amp rate and the voltage on each 4 volt group could be checked. Its still going strong thru the woods after 5 years, so maybe the Prius will get lucky too.

--------------------------------------

I have to admit that this long process has been more difficult and time consuming than I was originally expecting. And without the generous help from many forum members I probably would have given up.
So, a very big thanks to everyone, even though there will be more to come. Right now the car is sitting with several interior panels off, and the glove boxes out, and it will get worse before it gets better. I know I will save a ton of money, but time-wise, I wonder how the dealership might have fared? Maybe tracked it right down? There is no substitute for experience. BTW, DOLJ, you sound like a serious systems engineer, where you are called in as a last resort for the "laying on of the hands," LOL.
Much thanks to everyone.
Lloyd

 

modules are on order

 

DOLJ, It's been a while since you posted this balancing procedure and I am wondering if you still recommend it as a good starting point?
The reason I am asking is that I am taking the prius batt pack apart and hope to have the 2 used modules tomorrow and don't want to throw my money away by missing a refurb step. I have a nominal 48v Li-Ion charger that is adjustable to finish at up to 56 volts, and also starts at 5 amps and tapers off to 1 amp at the end. I also have a 60vdc-5A bench top power supply that can be used for constant current or constant voltage. Just strategizing on how to utilize the equipment for fastest turn-around to get a decent battery back into the prius. I think I can do that per your process recommendations.
A question on the discharge rate. I think somewhere you said discharge at a 0.1c rate to the 3 different voltages?? That is a pretty slow discharge compared to what the batt sees in everyday life. Is the 0.1c correct or should I try something else? I have stuff to cobble up something to get a recommended discharge rate, but don't really wish to spend more money on it. I am retired and at home so can easily monitor voltages and currents with a few meters. (and i'd probably learn more that way, too.)
Thank you,
Lloyd

 

The new modules arrived Saturday and I removed the batt pack from the car (relatively easy) and brought the pack into my shop. Checked the initial voltages before disassembly. 23 of the modules checked 7.95 to 7.98 volts. The bad module #9 checked 6.48 volts. Modules 8 and 10 on either side of the bad #9 checked 7.65. The 2 end modules 1 and 28 checked 7.85.

I installed a new module at 1 and 9, and then topped all the modules up to about 8.00 volts charging at about 300mA.

It is now on a load/discharge test of about 330mA/module.
The modules started off at about 8.00 volts (224v). The voltages were measured on the individual cells.
After just a few minutes all modules dropped to about 7.85 volts (220v).
After 20 minutes the modules had dropped to 7.69 volts (215v) still at a discharge rate of 330mA/module.
After another 25 minutes the modules were at 7.57 volts (212v).
After a total of 65 minutes the modules were at 7.45 volts (208v). 318mV discharge rate.

The discharge rate and voltage drop is less than what you mentioned in post# 29.

Does the rate matter much so long as I don't charge or discharge more rapidly than you have suggested? With some effort, I can vary the load resistance if it will make a reasonable difference in the new longevity of the batt pack. After coming this far no reason to cut corners to save a day or two????

Time to quit for the night, so I am stopping the test till tomorrow and will continue then. This is actually pretty interesting, and after 16 years in the Prius, I must say that I am impressed with how the modules are doing.
Lloyd

 

+++++ DOLJ, I was writing this when your post came up. Your early advice gave me the confidence to plow on ahead. ++++

Getting the Battery Pack balanced and equalized for installation.

After the 2 modules were replaced, I needed to charge and discharge as has already been outlined. First, all modules were topped up to about 8.0 volts using a bench top power supply that had a constant current feature. Max charge rate used was 350 mA/module.

Then the wiring for the discharge procedure was installed. It was a fair amount of work, but because it would be used for 3 cycles, it was worth the effort. All 28 modules were wired together in parallel to get a nominal 168 amps. All of the minus terminals were wired together with bare 16 gauge copper wire. Then, a plain diode was attached to each module plus terminal, and they were all wired together so that there were 28 modules connected in parallel. Nominal 7.2Vdc at about 168 amps. Energy discharge was thru a coil of ni-chrome wire that had about 0.8 ohms, so that the battery energy discharge was converted to heat. All of the + terminals were connected together after the 28 individual diodes. That way, even though the modules were being discharged as a large parallel group, The diode at each module prevented modules from "helping each other out."





The plus + group of wires was connected to one side of the nichrome coil and the minus- terminals were connected to the other side of the nichrome wire. I watched the current flowing thru the nichrome coil and kept it from about 19 ampsdown to a final 4 amps.



Then to recharge I used a 56vdc charger I had laying around. I changed the wiring harness from the discharge layout to one where the 28 modules were wired as 4 groups of 7, to utilize the 56 volts. Each 7-module group was protected by a diode so that the groups couldn't back-feed into each other. Charging up to about 8 volts per module worked pretty good.





I then waited a while and discharged the pack. Then more waiting. Then the final charging of all 4 groups. Then I tied all 28 modules together into one big parallel battery and let them stabilize over night. In the morning the modules read from 7.79 to 7.86 volts after the parallel wiring was removed. I was pleased.

Now time to do the final assembly and do the install. Coming up shortly.

 

ANXIETY AND THEN FINALLY SUCCESS

After the battery pack checked out electrically ok in my shop, I just reassembled it. Then put it back in the Prius and partially bolted it in and couldn't wait to try it.
Crap! Everything on the dash lit up but I had no traction motor activity. I came back inside and read some more on this forum. I had gotten a new P0A0D code on the reassembled battery. I found several references to that code, and a lot of asking : did you plug the safety switch in fully. Yes, damnit I did! Uhhhhh, no, damnit, I did not! I totally missed the final step of pushing DOWN on the handle till it really clicks. What an idiot, ha ha, but I am so glad that was the problem.

After it was all plugged in, I took it for a spin and what do you know? I think it is totally fixed. All I have to do now is reinstall all the trim pieces and panels.

If you don't count the cost of the new scanner ($350), I only spent $110 usd for the fix. Plus at least 24 hours, but I am retired so it was a good use of my time!! And my wife is ecstatic that she has her car back.

Thank you Prius Chat. I could not, and would not have done it without you!

 

Ha ha, Yes, several references to that. It did slide down with a very satisfying "SNAP". That lock would be fairly effective as theft protection I would think.

Anyway, all the trim is back in place, I took it for another test drive and the batteries went all the way to green on the monitor, and I only 3 little M6x12 bolts left over. Life is good.
Lloyd

 

Good luck!

 

FOLLOW-UP 11 days after re-install

The project is doing decent (two modules in the batt-pack replaced, balanced, etc), and will hold for awhile, but I think a replacement battery is definitely on the horizon. But, for the main battery pack to have lasted 16 years, is more than acceptable to me. Part of the reason it lasted so long might be because all the driving was at least 10 miles one way per trip. But an odd thing is that the car was always driven with the headlights on, although I did convert those over to LED about 5 years ago. Maybe we just got lucky with this car.

But, here is what I am seeing now. If the car is driven every day or 2, everything is fine. But if it sits for more than a few days, the red triangle comes back on and a few codes pop up related to a batt pack block being low, and indeed the voltage for the block did check low, but not horrible. But also the 12v batt was at about 11.9v and the first code up was P3000 for Hybrid control. Sorry I forgot to write everything down and I had already cleared the codes in the car, so I am not positive about anything. I will just wait for the triangle to pop up again and take proper notes.

Questions about a reliable replacement battery.

Most everything I have read on the forum says that reconditioned or re-manufactured battery packs are good for maybe 1 to 3 years. The 2007 only has 130k miles and is in pretty good condition and we'd like to drive it till it isn't worth anything, LOL.
So maybe a battery with new modules is the answer. New OEM batteries are not available. The NEW NiMH modules now have a structure with a few long tubes in them (visible) instead of the flat book config of the OEM Panasonics.
I am curious what your thoughts are if I want to make this car last for more than 3 years.
Particularly, the complete battery packs that have the new style of new NiMH modules in them.
Thank you.

 

I only called the one local dealership (that has changed ownership a while back), so maybe I didn't get good info. There are a few more dealerships in a hundred mile radius that I will try tomorrow. Thanks for making me aware of that.
____________________________--
An afterthought slightly off topic. (and I want to say that I almost never complain, honestly.)
I had been loyal to this dealership (where I called about the battery) since we bought our first Prius in 2007. Never balked at service or price because it always seemed upfront and more or less reasonable. I liked the staff in the service department. Then things changed after the ownership changed. It seemed like they changed the entire staff in the service writers area. It didn't have a good vibe. Then recently I had my Tacoma in for oil change and state inspection. I knew the front tire had a slow leak due to a nail at the edge of the tread, so I asked them to fix that while it was there. Figured that was an easy one. For some workload reason they had to keep it overnight. No big deal, a day won't kill me. The next day, no phone call from them so I called after lunch. They said they needed to check on it. Said the nail was considered too near the sidewall to be legally repaired and that I would need a new tire for for $xxx. And a wheel alignment would be a good idea too. What about a tube, I asked? Not legal. What about my spare? I am pretty sure it is a full size wheel and tire? I will have the tech check on that and get back to you. OK, give me a call when you find out. No call back, so I called them again. They took a few minutes while they had me on hold and then told me i did not have a full size spare. I told them to put a rejection on the Tacoma and I'd pick it up. My wife dropped me off there later and I went in and paid and drove home with the rejection on the windshield. Next day, I looked at the spare.... and you guessed it... it was full size.

Laziness or outright dishonesty, but they will never see me again. It's a shame, under the previous owner, I always felt that even though it sometimes seemed a wee bit expensive, they had never let me down. This last time, under the new ownership, will not be forgotten.