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Featured Toyota Corolla Hybrid ... reinvents the Gen 1 Prius

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    upload_2023-11-3_3-7-10.png

    From the EPA 'way back' machine:
    upload_2023-11-3_3-8-42.png

    <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2023
  2. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Interesting. Without EGR the 1.5 in a small cabin and wheels can fare close to a 20 year later powertrain 4awd on highway!
    Have engineers sleep on their laurels? :D
     
    #2 telmo744, Nov 3, 2023
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  3. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Corolla Hybrid is currently the highest-rated small car by Consumer Reports by the way—higher than the Gen 5 Prius.
     
    #3 Gokhan, Nov 3, 2023
  4. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Now to see which gets the plug first, if either, the hycam or the hyroola
    Or maybe even a US released Aqua? still waiting for that one since 2012 test drivein a C
     
    #4 vvillovv, Nov 3, 2023
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Considering how USA love love loves bigger cars - one should hope that it will be in a Sienna or Tacoma. This is where the biggest upward efficiency hit would be of greatest benefit. It's also (in part)why you can't hardly find a RAV4 Prime without a $5,000 markup over MSRP
    ;)
     
    #5 hill, Nov 3, 2023
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The Gen-1, 2001-03, has a built-in 'knee in the curve' above 65 mph that forces the ICE to run. This was displaced to 85 mph in the Gen-2, 2004, Prius.

    The transaxle design requires a minimum rpm from the ICE at the mph knee. Below the critical speed, it can turn off the ICE. Above that speed, the ICE must to be running to avoid over spinning an internal gear.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Likely the new Corolla hybrid is better engineered, and much more robust than the gen 1 Prius
     
    #7 bisco, Nov 3, 2023
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  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    & better egr designing
     
    #8 hill, Nov 3, 2023
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And likely bigger.
     
    #9 Trollbait, Nov 3, 2023
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Not a high bar. :rolleyes:
     
    #10 Mendel Leisk, Nov 3, 2023
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  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Corolla Hybrid AWD

    Egr cooler built into head, dual injection, electric variable intake timing with hydraulic exhaust timing in a hatchback with all advanced safety features and 196 hp for the new price of my 11 year old Prius v without any of the above.

    IMG_3375.jpeg

    Plus 12v battery with run down protection, lithium hv battery, towing capability, tire specific tpms and 120 vac outlet

    IMG_3374.jpeg
    IMG_3396.jpeg

    A Rav4 Prime on the lot available for msrp, 302 hp
    IMG_3225.jpeg
     
    #11 rjparker, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Between 2001-10, Prius skeptics loved to compare hybrid Prius to the ICE powered Corolla. Their monotonous line was the Prius fuel savings would not make up for the cheaper Corolla purchase difference. We showed them by buying millions of Prius ... forcing the skeptics to substitute 'style' or 'green' or other nonsense claims. That started my concerns with Consumer Reports (CR).

    Back then and possibly today, Consumer Reports claimed an impossibly low MPG numbers for the Prius. MPG numbers significantly below EPA metrics and I could only replicate by an unrealistic benchmark: (1) cold start; (2) maximum acceleration, and; (3) maximum brake. I have yet to see a documented CR protocol to repeat this bogus test. Yet, their Prius, customer surveys were 'off the chart' positive. In 2012, I could no longer stand CR and ended our decades long subscriptions. I had periodically sampled the newsstand issues only to re-stroke my anger. I see a similar pattern in CR treatment of Teslas.

    Regardless, I am happy to see an efficient, good looking Corolla hybrid. Even though I'm not tempted, I can admire the 'less bad' Corolla hybrid.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #12 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2023
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    while the corolla hatch is a very interesting automobile, a plug would make it even better.
    but you'll never get me out of my ev. once you make the move, you wonder why it took so long.
     
    #13 bisco, Nov 3, 2023
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Had my hopes up for a spare with the Corolla Cross AWD Hybrid, then saw it was the ol' offset column trick. :(
     

    Attached Files:

    #14 Mendel Leisk, Nov 3, 2023
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You raised an interesting question about future improvements:
    • 120 years ICE - very small future improvements ... in spite of magic carburetors.
    • 23 years hybrids - future improvements possible but more incremental than before.
    • 10 years EVs - significant improvements yet to occur and continued roll out.
    I expect when my 2019 Model 3 is ready for the scrap yard around 2030, the replacement will be significantly improved:
    • ~10% lower maintenance: cabin filters, window washing fluid, windshield wipers, and tires
    • ~15% cheaper purchase price
    • ~20% improved battery price-performance
    • ~25% more range
    • ~30% improved Full Self Driving, standard
    Bob Wilson
     
    #15 bwilson4web, Nov 3, 2023
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and major improvements to charging infrastructure and grid cleanliness.
     
    #16 bisco, Nov 3, 2023
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  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    10 years out is pretty hard to predict. I've become a lot more pessimistic about getting "everyone on board" to make any personal sacrifice (s) for future of human existence. Not saying human existence wouldn't continue in one or another form for, well almost forever. Only the conditions keep changing faster than the previous 10 years, going back as far as, 10 years worth of data has existed for any particular sector / special interest.
    Making future improvements is - in my mind anyways - going to be tricky. Esp ecially given the current Geo-Political - 'climate' if you will - . Adding AI and Quantum stirring up the pot, , making choices, , even personal choices, , much less special interests choices, getting, well - cloudy with a good chance of rain.
    Unless expecting a "Multi Pass to the Floating Paradise" The Fifth Element
     
    #17 vvillovv, Nov 4, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2023
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Not "sacrifice" but "save money:"
    It was always a pocket book issue:
    • ~26-30 MPG - 1991 Camry manual transmission and 2001 Echo automatic
    • ~52 MPG - 2003 and 2010 Prius hybrid
    • ~110 MPGe - 2014 and 2017 BMW i3 REx
    • ~130 MPGe - 2019 Model 3 Std Rng Plus
    Each technology step saved significant operational cost. The last two added "free charging," ~13%, around town and on the road. BTW, the 2017 Prime was omitted because as a first model year, it had control law problems the 2023 Prime corrected.

    Dollars is an effective, long term motivator that crosses personal and political boundaries. It has endurance that exceeds 'personal sacrifice'.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #18 bwilson4web, Nov 5, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2023
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