Lane Tracking Assist Issue

Like I said, reading comprehension problems. Maybe quote the bit where you think I explicitly said that the US Prius Prime models did not have front corner radars, and I can explain it.

 

Don't accuse people with reading comprehension after you post misinformation:

"Yeah, the total lack of LCA or FCTA in US specs I could find made me wonder if you had them, and I couldn't see any firm evidence from posts here of people here having them.
FCTA adds the front side radar. All European cars have FCTA+LCA."

I vaguely remember you told me in another thread that the US models did not have those radars. Even if that recollection of mine were incorrect, which is possible, you still said that in your post I just quoted and highlighted.

Misinformation is misinformation—there are no ifs and buts.

 

If one system becomes compromised, all the ADAS might get shut done. That's what happens on my Subaru. When the front cameras go off line because of heavy rain or fogged glass, I also get the warning lights for the rear radar powered reverse autobraking. I'm guessing they figure better to disable everything than load keeping track of the which individual systems can still be counted on to the driver.

 

Well, you should have known better when you bought your car—it's a Subaru.

Joke aside, this shows how bad an idea it is to base your car purchases on artificial Consumer Reports rating numbers alone (Subaru Outback was top-rated). While these numbers are useful, they often miss crucial personal decision-making criteria. For example, for me, ADAS disqualifies many car makes, including Tesla. While that rating is also posted on Consumer Reports separately from their car ratings, I need to dig down deep into it and also find out what is wrong with Tesla's ADAS by reading the detailed report (like lack of collaborative steering).

 

"I don't think many US Priuses have the front side radar. Afaict, they're added as part of the LCA+FCTA "sub-package" globally, and as such they're only in the XSE and XSE+ variants of the Prime in the USA. (And they enhance the other functions like PCS, plus you get a capacitative steering wheel touch sensor it seems)."

What brand tires do you have on your Gen5? | Page 5 | PriusChat

So, I found it. I was also thinking about this post of yours I just quoted above, which also contained some misinformation because you said only XSE and XSE Plus in the US had front corner radars and LCA/FCTA, but in reality, all US Prius Prime models, including SE, have front corner radars and LCA/FCTA/TJA. By the way, do Euro models have TJA?

Anyway, there is no need to get edgy about this. I posted the Toyota news release because it cleared everything once and for all, as there was still some confusion and ambiguity left.

 

How is this in anyway related to what I posted?

 

Not any less related than talking about a Subaru in a Toyota thread.

 

He wasn't saying the cars didn't have it. He was saying the specs he had looked at didn't show it. Which is probably fair; after all, I couldn't find any mentions about LCA on their website among their prime spec lists either, despite the prime having it.

 

*sigh* People are commenting about ADAS systems being disabled by weather with all the annoying warning lights in attendance. I merely pointed out that all those systems going down and flashing warnings could be just a liability/safety response to just one system going off line. As in why else would reverse auto braking shut off and warn when a front camera can't see?

 

That was good to know. I wonder if it happens on Toyota as well.

I wonder how the latest Subaru ADAS would rate on Consumer Reports. Earlier this year, Consumer Reports did not even include Subaru because they said their ADAS lacked simultaneous ACC/LTA. Nevertheless, they still seem far beyond Toyota in ADAS features available; so, I don't expect them to rate high.

 

True, in some situations it might make sense to turn off more systems if one sensor is compromised as you would not know if others might have the same issue. And some sensors dont even know if they are compromised.

Not all ADAS is the same though. The car OEMs and suppliers cant do whatever they feel like but have to follow extremely strict regulations - they have to be classified according ASIL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Safety_Integrity_Level) and there needs to be a certain decoupling, redundancy and fall back level.

Additional decoupling of systems can exist because of economical reasons, as they are provided by different suppliers like in case of the Prius the advanced parking features. It has a front facing camera but this should be independent from the one used for the mandatory (as per regulations) emergency braking, which has a much higher safety relevance compared to some parking "convenience" feature. Im not an expert here though.... and im curious if someone can actually check.

Here example ASIL levels


EDIT - because were at it just an overview of a typical level 2+ car these days. new prius shouldnt be fundamentally different (eg. we have more side USS for advanced parking - and there might be not a LIDAR). As for the Long-Range Radar the graphic is very misleading as we now have very wide angles to easily detect cars in other lanes and such.

 

Does the SE model have a capacitive sensor on the wheel?

 

I think so. It seems to accompany Lane Change Assist globally, and all North American Primes have that.

 

I thought it was a cap sensor and the users manual certainly implies it for my XSE talking about not using gloves, but from all tinkering I've done it is a force sensor, not a cap sensor. I can have my hand on the wheel but if I don't wiggle it, I get yelled at. While it would be weird, I should get a stick or something to confirm this. Unless the SE and XSE are different, pretty sure it is force sensing.

will

 

Squeezing it has always worked for me. Having my leg against it will usually keep it engaged as well. I think there was even someone putting a water bottle in his steering wheel to simulate pressure/weight to have it keep running "hands free" in a facebook group.

 

I've never needed to wiggle mine - a gentle touch is sufficient. I'd be amazed if mine wasn't capacitive. Is yours faulty, or is US spec different (and the manual misleading)? Does anyone in the US think their Prime has capacitive touch sensors? Seen plenty of expected complaints about lack on non-Prime, but little either way from Prime owners.

 

A BIG Thank You for posting the link to the manual.
My Prius is in transit, so this is giving me some light reading!
(Actually, I’m up to page 133 of the 600 or so. Learning quite a bit, having never had any EV before).

 

Congrats, driving in the battery electric vehicle (BEV) mode is a great feeling—fast, smooth, and silent! You get the best of both worlds with a PHEV, having a practically unlimited rage (unless you are in the middle of nowhere) when the battery runs out as well.

 

@Beach Dweller: I, too, read most of the manual well ahead of getting my PPPXP, I started reading it while I was still on a waiting list with no idea when I'd actually get one. There was a long enough lag, I really should re-read it now that I've had the car a while.

will

 

@KMO (and all):

OK, I had an errand a few days ago that had about 10 miles on an interstate where I could engage the the autopilot (DRCC and LKA) and do some tinkering. Good thing I was driving solo, I'm pretty sure my wife would have not have approved!

While on autopilot, I'd let the car get to the point where it would be telling me to grab the wheel and tried various ways to appease it:
- 2"x2" cardboard box (what I had in the car): Keeping my hands a least that distance from the wheel with the box I could pretty easily appease the system by applying very gentle pressure to the wheel via the box. So, while it may not be exclusively so, some force to the wheel without hands anywhere close is enough to appease the system.
- Hands extremely close but not touching the wheel: Car not happy, never dismisses the alarm. This included cupping my hands around about half the wheel without touching it.
- Hands very lightly touching the wheel: Indeterminate: Sometimes dismissed the alarm, sometimes not. Here is where it is difficult to judge. The road was bumpy, so touching in any way when hitting a bump clearly would add at least a little force somehow.

Given above, I'm leaning very much toward it being force only. I thought somewhere else in this forum there was also the point that for the electric steering assist, there needs to be a force sensor anyway, so if it can be used for hand detection too, why waste money on two sensors? I really suspect the language in the manual about gloves is just old boilerplate text that they forgot to omit. Main thing is "hands on the wheel", they just now have other ways of detecting it.

Of course, this is for my PPPXP, I could see how it could be different for different trims or regions. This seems like something that could be driven more by regional rules and regs as much as available technology.

(kinda fun experimenting with the car, isn't it! )

will