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2010 timing chain, can you get it to skip a tooth?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ItsDave, Oct 1, 2023.

  1. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    A friend told me he saw a video where someone did the timing chain and found one of the painted Orange links was actually off by one after he put it together, and somehow this guy was able to loosen up the chain and get it to move one tooth on the crank shaft without taking it all apart again. I can’t find it, is anyone Here aware of such a video? Long explanation below. Thanks very much!
    —————
    It seems when I did the head gasket, I let the timing chain be off one tooth on the crank, pretty sure something went wrong when I released the tensioner, I know the marks were right before I put the cover on because I took pictures.

    If I put the cam marks where they are supposed to be, the mark on the crank pulley is maybe 1/2” or so past where it should be. If there’s a way of getting the crankshaft back one tooth without disassembling it all is due like to know about it!
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If you aren't aware that the colored links will line up in different positions on the cam sprockets eight times out of every nine times you see them, step back and relax for a bit before you take anything apart.

    If you turn the crank over by hand while watching those painted links go by, and they go by nine or more times without ever aligning with the marks, that would mean you've got some issue.

    Otherwise, one time out of the nine, you'll see them lined up, and you're good.

    It's not necessarily nine for every engine. It's nine for this engine. Depends on the number of sprocket teeth and the number of chain links. If you're curious how to do that math, you can read more.
     
  3. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    Thanks for the link and doing the math!
    The crankshaft sprocket is definitely advanced, I’m guessing by one tooth. I wasn’t able to fix it with the timing cover on. So, now I know what I’ll be doing this week :)
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What are you basing this 'guess' on?

    I'm not trying to be a pest, but sometimes the details can matter.
     
  5. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    not at all, I appreciate it taking the time to go over it with me.

    There’s a p0016 since doing the head gasket, yet the car runs fine. Slightly less power, slightly worse mileage.

    i had to take the timing cover off a couple times because it kept leaking oil (newbie here with the Toyota black gasket making stuff), the last time I put it on, while releasing the tensioner, I felt and heard the chain “snap” or “jump” Is the best way I can describe it.

    now, when I bring the timing marks around, if I put the crankshaft pulley on 0, cam marks are slightly left of where they should be. If I rotate the crank until the cam marks are where they should be, the crank pulley mark is maybe 5/8” to 3/4” past where it should be.

    Hence my guess of one tooth on the crankshaft sprocket, could be two? Would it even run if it was 2? I don’t know.

    I didn’t include those details only to avoid writing a whole book for you helpful people to have to sift through. I was just looking for this fabled video. I can’t find it.

    Thanks!
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Somewhere somebody posted a photo showing how, with the crank pulley removed, if you squint just right between the shaft and the oil seal, you can spot when the painted link is at the dot.

    Just where was that? Search search search. Dig dig. Ah yes, johnnychimpo in 2021:

    [​IMG]

    I've never tried this, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could remove the chain tensioner out the side and maybe finagle yourself enough chain slack to slip in off the cam sprocket teeth and shift it a tooth or so. Then just re-do the whole set the hook on the chain tensioner, install it, counterclock the crankshaft to release the hook business.
     
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  7. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    I tried! I really tried lol. I still think it can be done, but all those attempts were taking so long I figured it would take less time to just take it apart and fix it
    Oh well.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Gasket Masters use (and ID) an alternative gasket maker, Permatex Ultra Black IIRC. Has a much more leisurely cure time.
     
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  9. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    Thanks for the heads up. I still have a full tube of the 1207b and God willing I won’t be doing this again!

    anyone have a picture of how the tensioner gasket goes? I don’t want to pay another $70 for the Techstream manual again

    Thanks!
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    There is a chain installation step where you reverse the rotation a bit that can cause issues if missed.

    IMG_0329.jpeg
     
  11. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    So the tab goes up, thank you!
     
  12. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    Just got it back together, I triple checked timing marks. I even cranked the engine around by hand a few times after releasing the tensioner to make sure.
    It’s rattling like crazy, like it does when it used to misfire from coolant. There are no codes though.
    I checked the plug in the coil packs.

    will Techstream help me trouble shoot this? If so, what an I looking for?

    Thanks
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Misfire diagnosis has some science and some art. There's an article at the back of the Toyota Tech issue mentioned in this post that has a lot of good suggestions.
     
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  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Maybe it doesn't need to be asked... buttttt.... Do you have oil in it?
    Mine rattled for 5-10 seconds when I started mine. The started going away as
    the lifters filled. 13,000 miles and still running well, and no leaks.

     
  15. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    Ha! Good thought, it has oil. This is definitely the rattle of a misfire
     
  16. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    My automotive technician friend has taught me through this project that sleeping in a problem often helps.
    I would be a terrible tech unless I learned to listen to the little voice in my head more often.
    When I put the plugs in, all 4 were were suspiciously easy to spin in by hand. They also came to a dead stop by hand, usually the last turn or two I need the wrench for, before tightening.
    After they were in, I rotated the engine with a wrench on the crankshaft and verified the timing marks a couple times before I put the valve cover on. When I did that, it was also suspiciously easy and I hear air squishing out from somewhere, and just figured “man I have terrible compression guess I’ll need a motor soon.” But the last time I resealed the timing cover, while rotating the engine with a wrench it got so hard I remembered I didn’t take the plugs out, so I don’t have terrible compression.
    Something going on with the installation of the plugs I think. Gonna take off from work tomorrow and check it out. I’m maxed out on vacation time anyway, and driving the pickup to work is getting expensive
     
  17. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    Oops double post
     
  18. ttou68

    ttou68 Active Member

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    FYI, RTV gasket maker may take up to 24 hours fully cures.
    I usually let it set overnight, before I put any fluids in it to prevent possible leaks, or contaminated coolant...

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  19. ItsDave

    ItsDave New Member

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    yeah last time I sealed the timing cover I let it sit overnight. The the Toyota shop manual said don’t put oil in it start it for two hours, which is what I went by this time
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The shop manual two-hour recommendation may also pertain to the Toyota FIPG, which may have a shorter cure time than other gasket makers you might buy elsewhere. (You'll notice the shop manual instructions for applying the FIPG give you all of two minutes to do it—which is no sweat when you work in a well-lighted, spacious factory and you are a robot. Robots don't sweat.)
     
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