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HV Battery to ECU wiring diagram? Installing one PIP 1.1kWh module in a Gen 2.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by black_jmyntrn, Sep 15, 2023.

  1. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Project Lithium has a cell balancing circuit in each module, otherwise it uses the Gen2 battery ecu. That "works", but IDK if that compromises safety at all due to possible thermal concerns.

    12V lithium batteries have their own internal BMS.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  2. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    I take it you haven't seen the guy install lithium as a direct swap yet? He's from Tennesee?
     
  3. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    OK fair enough.
    Further argument is certainly rather pointless.

    Just be SURE to let us know when one of your carefully calculated experiments goes awry
    and burns up your car.......or puts you in the hospital.
    Most people don't have the guts to report on their failures.
     
  4. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    let me ask you this... how would you see this working?
     
  5. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That's a futile question. Some people are not visionaries and justify their opposition to everything by saying they are realists and just telling people like it is. :sneaky:(y):whistle::D:)
     
  6. netsplit

    netsplit Junior Member

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    I'm rooting for this to succeed, but I have to ask how charge monitoring works for this setup?

    Specifically it's my understanding the second gen tries to keep the high voltage battery between a certain percent charge (iirc 40% to 80%). Further voltage is used to measure current charge. Except each battery chemistry has different voltages for the same charges, so that could some significant issues, fires, and other not so fun stuff.


    Is swapping the battery energy control computer with a lithium focused one enough to make the rest of the car error and fire free?
     
  7. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    now, those people, the non-visionary tell it like it i type... If by chance their "like it is" is determined to be incorrect, do you think thay would admit it or hide and pretend they don't exist?

    I'm one of those visionary type of people, so when I see lithium batteries swapped in a Gen 2 without fires and such...or additional bms... that's what I see all while ensuring ive covered basis on any what-ifs. That said... literally a direct swap and if no spaks or fires for 5 minutes ill turn the car on with tech stream running. I hear I have to clear the battery codes a certain way but ill see what bridges appear I have to cross.

    I will say, trying to find the PIP battery connector harness with the temp sensors has been a task... tomorrow i go get the battery terminal rings and wire to start crimping and making my own wire harness. my connector guy usually gets back to me fast and no word from him I take it to mean he doesnt have what I requested or still looking. so i reached out to my usual connector go toas and some new ones... look at what this company wants for the connectors!!! hell naw.. to the naw naw naw!

    upload_2023-9-20_2-22-25.png

    also since I need the module connector harness for my PIP and dont have a spae one.. so far.. ive only found one for sale on all of the internet and its not even the one with temp sensors..
    upload_2023-9-20_2-25-5.png

    and i did find a Gen two harness.. umm.. gonna try local dismantlers tomorrow for both
    upload_2023-9-20_2-25-54.png
    lastly, there are single PIP battery modules with the harness for sale, but after talking to a few hybrid mechanic shops its sounding like PIP parts are rare and most don't buy them!

    hell even my engine wire harness... talking through 8 different dealerships only one was able to provide the correct part number since i have the advanced tech package with 8 speaker jbl... hahaha Toyota wants $4k for the engine wire harness on my car and seeing as how i was told incorrect info by 7 dealerships. If they sell me the wrong one, I cant return it.. ha!
     
  8. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    I don't see it working at all........at least not in any fashion that would be useful
    to the "masses" of Prius owners.

    I kind of admire your guts in tackling this kind of a project but the posts
    from you and others trying similar things seem to be encouraging others
    who are not qualified for such work to get all excited about something
    that hasn't even seen a successful "prototype" yet.

    I DO wish you luck.
    But spewing theories proves nothing.
    And throwing insults at those who don't agree with taking this
    public before it is ready is not a nice thing to do.

    Done.
     
  9. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    wait.. where did I insult you? that I don't recall...
     
  10. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    for me.. nothing you've said provides any substantial substance on why it won't work, that is what I am missing here.

    the same to you, saying it won't work and defining why is a moot point to me like my theories to you...
     
  11. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Nope. Don't know him. Don't really care.

    As I said, it should "work". I assume it won't have the same level of protections that an OE installation would. OE puts a decent amount of money and time into lithium BMS for a reason.

    You can modify your car as you want. Under most operating conditions, the lack of OE protections isn't an issue. Lack of balancing can result in shortened battery life.

    Some folk are fine with that.

    99.9% of the time, you don't NEED seatbelts, or airbags, or ABS...until you do.

    It all comes down to personal risk tolerance. Possible gains versus possible losses.

    For personal curiosity, what would be the source year for the PIP module?


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  12. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    You know, I understand your point. I think for me, I'm not the guy to buy a new car and wait until his warranty is over before he starts modifying it. I'm the guy who doesn't care about warranties, particularly when I buy a new to me car. Now, a new Lease, the different story, I love my warranty and probably got them to give me an unlimited mileage one somehow... thats only because it's the top of the line AMG with all options and leasehackr showed me how to win big at the end of the deal.

    In this scenario tho, my 2013 PIP now has 8.8kWh of batteries sitting nice and clean installed as if they came from the factory, it's just.. I need ~70kWh of batteries which I am still working on obtaining. I am also the guy who wasn't satisfied with a 1.5" lift kit on my car and now it's the tallest lifted Gen 3 in America that actually goes off the pavement. Even those Gen 2 with radical lift out of Arizona... you never see them off the pavement up 4x4 trails where I travel.

    Another plan with the perfectly good PIP HV batteries is taking as many cells as I can fit in the rear where my current 12V battery is and the opposite side where the other 85ah AGM battery sits with hopes it'll get me over 150ah in 12V Lithium power per side!

    This Gen 2 was gifted with a bad battery and recently replaced ABS parts... Its the car I'm building with some never before made on a Prius take me off the pavement so I rip vehicle... my attchment to the need of this vehicle is that of what I'm doing. Testing my theories as it doesnt appear many have had my visions that keep me up at night about how amazing Hybrid technology is and how soon many more will with the whole only supercharged v8 coupe you can buy in 2023 is the Jaguar ftype... or maybe its 2024

    Point is with all of this.. I thank you for providing facts regarding my possible outcome, that why I post..this exploratory quest I am on to answer questions I have like... what if the Sienna AWD is similar to the Rav4... or what is the Rav4 Similar to? The rear end I have from the UX is the exact as Prius and the others with that little motor... if the Rav4 Prime is quicker than a Supra... What would a Sienna do? wait wait wait. what if a ~268hp electric motor was back there like the one in mine? or... what if we put larger non oe batteries or even OE.. BZ4x modules in my Prius.... or.. a Tundra... Hybird with PHEV conversion and 200kWh of battereies. or two from the BZ4x.... The Hybrid Performance Era is here and the Prius or GS450h is the Drive train chosen for most DIYEV projects....

    so have i measured or did the battery calculator yet on this pip to gen2? nope. I went straight to basic conversion. 6500amerps or whatever is like 1.3kWh in nihm.... lithium module is 1.1kWh in Lithium... not a real direct 1:1 conversion between the two either... soo.. long as I follow the gen2 battery ordering when applied and to connector pins... and since now.. i thought i couldve bought a pip harness, the one out of the 4 with the temp sensor and not extra unneeded cable. nope. only one harness on the local to me internet and its not the one I wanted. can you believe that? and and.. most hybrid mechanics shops(was just at pomona pull part ran into the guys from greenbean I know) dont buy pip batteries and such.... my easy using oe pip battery wire harness plan was shot out of water yesterday. but today is a new... goal is car running before EOW.

    they have the same number of cells.. I didn't want to sit and crimp all those wires and route them al neatly to make my own wire harness..

     
  13. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    hahaha I cant post what my active plan and course of action is on something I've never done with hopes someone smarter than me types something that will help guide my sail into the open sea alone? Isn't that why we are all here?
    heh.. and wasting both of our times and not providing facts to me on why it wont wok.... some sort of words typed on a screen that hold value? keep scrolling..
     
  14. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Some people do have visions that keep them up at night…
     
  15. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    I love you too my little Kumquat!
     
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  16. Plaman

    Plaman Member

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    Jimmy...

    I'm going to be real honest with you bud. I appreciate all your work in the space but I think you need to narrow your focus. I'm a 2006 owner and I've had my gen 2 for 8 years. I cannot say enough how much I appreciate all your work in the aftermarket space that ultimately raises the tide for all Prius owners and I am a die hard owner but I think it's time we had a talk...

    Looking at PriusOverlanding.com in the Gen 2 section of your product offerings:

    $369.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Lift Kit 2 inch Lift Gen 2: Sold Out
    $369.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Trailer Hitch 2-inch Receiver Gen 2: Sold Out
    $199.00 Toyota Prius 2004-2009 rear door rear quarter upper and lower hatch shades: Sold Out
    $569.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Super Duty Rear Lift Springs Gen 2: Sold Out
    $899.00 2004 -2009 Toyota Prius Low Profile Roof Rack Prius Gen 2: Sold Out
    $469.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Heavy Duty Rear Lift Springs Gen 2: Sold Out
    $199.00 Toyota Prius 2004-2009 Full Front Door Sun Shades: Sold Out
    $340.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Lift Kit | Multi-Height Selection: Sold Out
    $329.00 Toyota Prius Blackout Shades Covers All Windows Gen 2 | 2004-2009: Sold Out
    $1,100.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Adjustable Lifting Coilover System: Sold Out
    $39.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Trunk/Hatch Inside Release Push Button Kit: Sold Out
    $59.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Low Profile Side Mirror LED Ditch Light Brackets Gen 2: Sold Out
    $189.00 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Subframe Drop Spacer Kit Gen 2: "In Stock" (but still listed as made to order!)

    You are... SOLD OUT... of EVERYTHING you "sell", and i don't watch too closely but I'm pretty sure it's been this way for months dude!

    I absolutely want to see you achieve success because it ultimately makes it better for all Gen2 owners but I'm just being honest, with some objective observation, I think you need to rethink your timeline / value on this project. Also, think about the level of commitment and your personal resources you can contribute to it.

    I'll let everybody else chime in but I'm of the opinion that *another* Lithium battery at "a lower price point" isn't what the community needs at this very moment. Quite frankly, I think you're starting to jeopardize the space as you spread yourself too thin.

    Jack at Project Lithium already has this product on lock... because it is his sole focus and quite frankly has been after it for YEARS. I can also personally attest, you can't be pushing a battery product offering without being able to properly support it-that will be your FASTEST way to disaster. My first attempt on my Project Lithium build was a miss. Jack had replacement cells on my doorstep within 2 days for no charge...

    How can you do that if you have no cells in stock??

    I was definitely part of the Gen 2 Roof Rack Chargeback Cartel but quite frankly, you deserved it dude. You held my money for 8 months, there was never a tracking number, and when I send your 3rd-party support team the screenshots that supported my case, they stopped responding entirely... I don't think you've learned... 6 months later-I still can't buy that roof rack from you and you added me to a charge back cartel mailing list with promises of the "Gen2 Roof Rack Version 2.0" I have yet to see photos, a description, or again-have the ability to even purchase it. You sent out a teaser e-mail about that roof rack update at the end of June... it's been 3 months Jimmy!

    I can't stop you from tinkering but I think you should narrow your product offerings on the website to only the orders you can fulfill. I know the effort you put into the community so I wouldn't be afraid to order something you developed but you'll never achieve scale without being able to sell to someone other than your "internet Prius friends". You need a website, product offerings, and ultimately a fulfillment infrastructure that is in line with what you can reliably achieve. Otherwise nobody will order anything you have to offer and our small camp of Prius Overlanding Enthusiasts may fade away before we achieve the vision we all share.

    You are a great guy Jimmy, fighting the best fight so I only give you these reflections in the most positive tone but please consider taking a step back and getting the execution of your existing offerings in line with what you can reliable execute.

    but really... what's up with that Version 2.0 of the roof rack for Gen 2??? I finally had to pull the trigger on the Prius off-road one and want to know what I'm missing! Much love brother, hope the observation are well received.











     
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  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Its the visions at night...
     
  18. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    You know... the part that gets me to this day... The folks who feel their opinion is 100% the way things are. That said, I'd be a fool to not at least attempt to understand where someone is coming from. Whether it comes from a loving, compassionate heart or one of malice and hatred.Granted it sounds like you are a customer, for that I thank you and I won't let your patience be in vain!

    That to say, you should've waited just a little longer, they mimicked my flaw. ha! One that I didn't want to release. :: chuckles ::
    It took the new guy some time to get his bearings settled... the show is about to start real soon and I thank you for your feedback!

    Sepertly.. im not trying to push anything but get my Gen 2 running... using the OE Plugin Cells I have left over after upgrading my batteries... If you only knew how good Jack and I are... smdh... like I said, the part that gets me to this day... The folks who feel their opinion is 100% the way things are.

    Lastly... I've made it so there are no more delays ever, took some time... I learned some things... got rid of those I thought were supporters and had to obtain new levels of product manufacturing I was not aware of during the initial launch! You know... Toyota has people wait up to and sometimes more than 12 months for a Catalytic Converter? Sure, people were waiting close to that initially for Sun Shades, but not anymore... little do you know the site has said out of stock while we transition to a new platform to support multiple fulfillment locations... sigh... I didn't want orders coming in to then have more angry customers, heh.. cant win either way with some of you all!
     
    #38 black_jmyntrn, Sep 27, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2023
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Doublespeak is the language that deliberately distorts, disguises, obscures, hides, or reverses the meaning of words.

    It may also refer to intentional ambiguity or inversion of meanings. In the latter case, doublespeak is used to hide the truth or distort it.

    According to some scholars, doublespeak is the domain of lies.

    Doublespeak implies the shaping and selection of facts to fit a specific agenda and ignoring the facts that do not fit the narrative (Herman, 1992, p. 3).


    In this case, it keeps people sending money for non-existent products and then ghosting those buyers.
     
  20. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    whaaa? you can't even make a purchase on the site... how can people sending...nevermind. Just wasted lines on the screen for nothing...

    [​IMG]