Any thoughts on first oil change interval?

I find your position amusing (no offense intended): a lot of posters distrust “stealerships” (their choice of words), yet you trust them to tell you when your car needs a certain service.
Could it be (just speculating here) that longer OCI could lead to shorter lifespans or the need for more expensive repairs, and since the manufacturer “seems” (a vailed reference to the often overlooked footnotes in the maintenance schedule) to approve of extended OCI, that the dealership has a win- win situation: car begins needing expensive repairs sooner, owner buys a new one or spends more money on repairs?
As far as a separate mileage than the car, have you noticed the time interval (as in X number of months or X number of miles “which ever occurs FIRST”)?
Again, the 4 sources I mentioned all seem concerned about additive degradation over time.

 

After the free ToyotaCare maintenance runs out, buy the AdvantageCARE offered at many Southern California dealers and do six-month oil changes (3,000–8000 miles, depending on how much you drive). It is only $149.95 for three service visits; so, it is only $49.98 for synthetic oil change with TGMO 0W-16 SP/GF-5B, OEM Toyota oil filter, and OEM Toyota drain-plug gasket and tire rotation and multipoint inspection with fluid top-off. This is what I have been doing.



https://www.westcoasttoyotalb.com/advantagecare/

 

Apologies if this has already been answered in this thread: how do you measure the "miles" for oil change intervals when virtually all of your driving is in full EV mode? When someone here says they are doing their first change at 1,000, or 5,000 miles, do they compensate for the miles driven in EV? And how would you do that? Thanks.

 

BEV driving does not modify the oil-change interval on a PHEV. It is still twelve months/10,000 miles, whichever comes first, for normal driving and six months/5,000 miles, whichever comes, first for severe driving. Even if you don't drive at all, you still need a change your oil and oil filter once a year. Engine oil and oil filter change is the most important maintenance item for an ICE vehicle, and there is no reason to try to find ways to avoid it.

 

Well, I’m not going to argue with the uninformed, but I will say the oil change interval of 5k is highly recommended by the experts and should be followed faithfully.

 

From "Popular Mechanics" Sept. 14th, 2010. Article written by Mike Allen.
"I customarily change the oil in a new engine after about 20 miles, and again at 1000 or so."

 

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/first-oil-change-analysis.24475/

 

2022 Scat Pack, First Oil Change Analysis. | Dodge Challenger Forum

 

One of the reasons for that was because of the prevalence of direct injected engines; no fuel vapor washing over the valves which can lead to carbon buildup. The theory being the the cleaner your oil, it would reduce the carbon buildup. Another reason was because many people only take short trips which doesn't allow the oil to reach high enough temperatures to cook off any residual moisture that can accumulate in the oil. If one drives 40,000 miles per year, 5,000 mile oil changes would be a waste of money as you would be changing every 6-7 weeks. Then again, if one drives only 4,000 miles per year, then I would change the oil every six months no matter the mileage. So it's really all about how you drive the car. If my intent was to drive only in EV mode most of the time, I would not go beyond six months for oil change intervals no matter what. However since I have to drive 80 miles roundtrip to my downtown office and back, I will probably go about 7,500 miles between oil changes which should be around six months give or take.

For ultimate peace of mind, have your oil analyzed. Blackstone is one company that comes to mind. They will provide data on how your oil is performing, data on engine wear, and even recommendations of oil change intervals.

 

Good point.
Anecdotal evidence also suggests that 5k OCIs can delay the "sudden onset head gasket failures" that some of us haven't seen in the older G3s. Since this was an engineering failure, one might presume that the G5's, with their new power plants might have an engineering vulnerability that would be exacerbated by a longer OCI.

Or?
Maybe not.


As mentioned above, if you're only going to keep the car for a couple of years or drive it less than 200,000 miles then you can probably get by with the factory maintenance schedule, which to my certain knowledge was only followed by about 1-percent of the owners of older generation Priuses .
I will not try to BS people into saying that I followed the old maintenance schedule religiously, which included a 1 month/1,000 mile entry along with the 6 month/5,000 mile service but I did usually check the fluids every time I opened the hood.
Key word: "Usually."

I checked the Warranty and Maintenance guide for the G5s
2023 Toyota Prius Manuals & Warranties | Toyota Owners

This is an aptly named document!!!!
Think about it.
They're actually saying the quiet part out loud.
The Warranty and Maintenance guide is the maintenance required to keep the car reliable for the warranty period....

In keeping with Toyota's "closed-hood" maintenance philosophy, they've eliminated the 1,000 mile check, and now just have a 5,000 mile maintenance line item:
■ Add Toyota EFI Tank Additive or equivalent (Hawaii only)
■ Check installation of driver’s floor mat
■ Inspect and adjust all fluid levels.
■ Inspect HV battery cooling intake filter.
■ Inspect wiper blades.
■ Rotate tires.
■ Visually inspect brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs.

Additional Maintenance Items for Special Operating Conditions3 Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads:
■ Inspect ball joints and dust covers
■ Inspect drive shaft boots
■ Inspect engine air filter
■ Inspect steering linkage and boots
■ Replace engine oil and oil filter2
■ Re-torque drive shaft nut (AWD)
■ Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis.


SO.....
Bottom line?
Your car.
Your call.

MY THOUGHTS are that you can probably skip the 1,000 mile fluid checks for the first year or two and maybe do the first oil change a little early - but even THEN I'm going to check them anyway when I open the hood to refill the windshield washer fluid, clean the car, etc.
I'll never buy into the notion that 10,000 mile OCIs are a wise thing to do in any current ICE with standard filtration - but that's me being me.
I've never had my oil analyzed because it's not cost effective for me, and it seems sort of pointless.
For $30, I can just change my oil and get on with my life, and modern ICEs are not failing due to lubrication related issues. Even the G3's head gasket failures which ARE (sorta-kinda) oil related this condition would not have detected by the oil analysis nor would they have prevented these types of failure.
1,000 mile oil and fluid checks WOULD have!

If I ever buy a used car and the previous owner shows me a fist full of oil analysis reports it would probably be a value adder for me but only because they cared enough about their car to pay for the reports.
It's like "nursery water" for infants.

Good Luck!!

 

It's easy to throw around unsubstantiated claims.
What "experts" exactly ?
Using high quality synthetic oil ?
In a vehicle where the engine runs only part time ??

There are "experts" at several BIG oil companies that disagree with you.
Some even offer a guarantee.

 

These days, most experts will tell you that quality synthetic oil is good for 10,000 miles, and you would be fine with following your owner's manual.

There are synthetic oils out there with extra antioxidants (AO) that allow for 15,000-, 20,000-, and even 25,000-mile oil-change intervals such as Mobil 1 Extended-Performance, Castrol Extended-Performance, Amsoil, etc. The quality of the synthetic base oil will affect the OCI in addition to to the AO content. Some synthetic oils have polyol ester (POE) to keep things cleaner. TGMO 0W-16 and 0W-20 are very good oils that have some POE (engine cleaning), high moly content (friction reduction), high boron content (dispersant for sludge), and good ZDDP content (antiwear).

Yes, you can do a used-oil analysis (UOA) if you like. Ideally you want the oxidation, nitration, and sulfation measured in addition to TBN and TAN, but Blackstone labs typically don't offer these.

That said, I am doing 5,000-mile OCIs now because it is cheaper to buy the 3X @$50 each oil-change/tire rotation package under AdvantageCARE than skipping the oil change and doing tire rotation only after six months.

If you are doing severe driving (short trips, heavy-footed driver, high-speed driving, dusty roads, etc.), then a 5,000-mile OCI is better. Or if you are looking for ultimate peace of mind, do a 5,000-mile OCI. Fresh oil also has better fuel economy than aged oil.

 

This does not logically make sense to me. Not saying it is not correct, it may be. Logically, if someone is thinking they want to do an early first oil change, say at 1,000 miles, and the first 900 miles is done in full EV mode, that the 1,000 mile change can/should be delayed until more mileage is actually on the gas engine. You can extrapolate these numbers but I don't see how BEV driving does not modify, at all, when you would do oil changes. This is my first EV, and first PHEV, so I may just take the approach of doing the first oil change around 2500 miles knowing that probably 80% of those miles are not running the gas engine.

 

Again, I am not going to get in a drawn out argument with anyone, but you couldn’t be more wrong. Yes, additives are important, but they do not, in any experts experience, make oil last 10,000 miles. Any “expert” that tells you that synthetic oil is blindly good for 10,000 miles isn’t an expert, he is simple a good old boy stuck in dogma. I have researched this extensively. You are so wrong. Use 10k OIC on your car, that is your prerogative, but please, don’t mess someone else up with your opinion. I hear this crap over and over. If you drive ………… then 10k OIC’s are good for you. That is so wrong. There is objective and clear data on this. You just have to have an open mind to find it.

 

Gotta love oil threads. Same arguments/opinions I've read in every forum I've belonged to.

 

If you look at the maintenance manual, you will see that you are required to change the oil every twelve months even if you don't drive at all (0 miles). This is the same with any car.

A PHEV can be even harder on oil than an HEV if the owner uses it in a way that the ICE driving is done for only short trips.

Repeated short trips = six-month oil changes. This is especially true for an HEV or PHEV. Don't forget that Prius engines have a lot of problems with carbon build-up and failure due to carbon build-up. Repeated short trips, prolonged oil-change intervals, and sometimes lower-quality oils are a culprit. To alleviate the problem, I use BEV driving for all short trips and HEV driving for all long trips.

 

I am an engine-oil expert. I used to be a top poster on BITOG. I know more about engine oil than practically anyone—a lot more than I should know.

Unfortunately, I can confidently say that you know practically nothing about engine oil. You don't know what base oil and VII are, how base stocks—conventional and synthetic—differ, what AO does, what other additive components do, what TBN/TAN are, how an oil is constructed, how an oil ages, what oxidation, nitration, and sulfation are, how oil is tested, etc. Until you learn these concepts, there is no point in discussing this with you. Till then, you will be OK following your maintenance manual.

 

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LOL Three pages in a few days, and I just reluctantly posted to eliminate misinformation, as it is easily spread in oil discussions.

The blanket statement that a 10,000-mile OCI is bad for your engine had to be corrected.

That said, Prius engines are known to have carbon buildup issues, and if you are doing mostly short trips, you should do 5,000-mile OCIs. As I said, in my Prius Prime, I avoid short trips altogether using the BEV mode, and I have an oil-change subscription package (AdvantageCARE) that allows me to have 5,000-mile oil changes cheaper than 10,000-mile oil changes.