1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2023 Prime: Anyone Figured Out Tank Average MPG?

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Fuel Economy & Prime EV Range' started by tovli, Aug 6, 2023.

  1. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Unless the Tank Average measurement is totally hosed.

    I drove three tanks with ----% on the guage at the start and end of each tank filling.
    - Trip showed a reasonable MPG from Ready to shutdown.
    - Total Average showed a reasonable MPG covering the multiple Ready to shutdown "trips" for the tank from filled to next filling.
    - Tank Average (which does not have a "hold OK to reset") showed 99.9 MPG from the day I picked up the car to today.

    Supposedly the car knows it was filled because the door opened, the gauge went to the max, and the range went to a new max from my "tank average MPG" * 10.6 gal.

    It started at 511 miles when I picked up the car which would be 48 MPG from Toyota testing.

    It currently shows 474 miles for a full tank - which says the car thinks my Tank Average is 44.7 MPG, but it is displaying 99.9 MPG in the MID. WHY?

    No - totally redesigned user interface and data availability.
     
  2. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I know the MPG of the car six ways to Sunday. This thread is about the Prius Prime "Tank Average" information display being 99.9 when the car thinks the Tank Average is 44.7 MPG.
     
  3. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    The refill at the start of the test was 4.354 gallons, the fuel guage went up to max and the estimated gas only range went down from the original 511 miles to 467 miles meaning the car thought the "Tank Average MPG" was 44.0 MPG.

    After my HV test, the car "thinks" the Tank Average MPG is now 44.7 MPG but it still displays 99.9 MPG in the Tank Average MPG Multi-Information Display.

    This thread is not about how to measure MPG, it is Why is the displayed value 99.9 when the car "thinks" it is 44.7 MPG (a very believable and useful number). I cannot use the MID Tank Average value, but I believe I can trust the range next to that little fuel pump icon.

    I tend to want to know raw data like my average MPG for a particular type of drive and how much gas is in the tank, then make my own range estimates. It is looking like that gas range estimate might be believable. Prior 2009 Prius fuel gauge had 10 pips, that I never planned for going below two pips remaining. This tank display doesn't have countable pips.
     
  4. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2021
    1,558
    1,557
    0
    Location:
    North Dakota - USA
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    Limited AWD-e
    Okay, so what's your current Total Average and how has it been changing over the last several fill-ups(if you've checked it)?

    One of your earlier posts said your Trip and Total Averages have been fluctuating normally, but your Tank Average is stuck at 99.9mpg. I'm starting to wonder it there's just some bad data in the computer and maybe it needs a hard reset to clear it.
     
  5. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    I reset Total Average in HV mode to zero when I filled up and have not yet burned any dinosaurs, or where ever oil really comes from.

    I have the feeling "Tank Average MPG" is only valid for a non-prime.
     
  6. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    1,222
    456
    0
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    What does the owners manual have to say about tank average? I used to set the trip meter then see what mpg I would get in any segment. I think, now I just drive as well as I can and forget about it.
    Also having the screen on showing the engine off/on, and charging or discharging is pretty interesting. Engine goes off quite a bit. I think it was hammersmith who said it.
    The trip meter mpg is good to monitor driving style or road conditions too. Easy to see when doing better or worse, it starts going the other way up or down. Maybe everyone does this already.
     
    tovli likes this.
  7. Numtini

    Numtini Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2023
    88
    87
    0
    Location:
    Cape Schrod
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    OMG you have to do this with the EV range depleted. It's so simple. Run the battery down, then test.
     
    AndersOne likes this.
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Total means just that. It is all the miles driven regardless off what fuel the car used to cover them.
    Reporting the combined efficiency of all the fuels used for those miles would be possible. But that means paying somebody to implement it for a small segment at this time, and most people just want to know how much gasoline they are using.
     
    tovli likes this.
  9. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    332
    189
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    The MPG calculations will be especially challenging/confusing when the first people have their solar panel roof primes - e.g. I ordered one but I probably will not charge the car unless gas gets more expensive.
    So MPG will heavily depend on how often i drive and how sunny it is.
     
    Trollbait and tovli like this.
  10. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Works wonderfully for non-prime, totally bogus for prime.

    Using the same software for both without tailoring is just lazy, but hey we're talking about an inexpensive car aren't we? oh yeah not.
     
  11. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    449
    312
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    All I care about is how many miles can I drive between tanks of gas because gas will be my biggest expense. If I want to calculate cost per mile, I can add in the cost of charging which at $0.0595 per kWh won't be all that much.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The Toyota brand sells 19 models in the US. Just two of them are PHEVs, and those are produced in small numbers. That ratio isn't much better for other brands or markets. Why add to the cost of the car for minor feature few care about?
     
  13. tovli

    tovli 2023 Prius Prime replaced 09 Prius

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    334
    259
    1
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Toyota is counting on most folks to be thinking along those lines.

    I'm an obsessive "techie", and don't mind when a product doesn't offer information or a feature, but it bugs me really, really intensely to be lied to by software. I spent 45 years writing software. I was passionate about every feature being bug-free and useful. When the Prime tells me I got 57 MPG but the real number is 42, I really don't care that 42 is still a darn good figure compared with my wife's premium gas hog at 20, my car lied to me and not by a little round off error or limiited by variability. It inflated the "goodness" by 36%. That is just flat lying to me. I'd rather not have a gasoline MPG feature.

    Luckily I won't be using HV mode much, so it won't annoy me that often.
     
    Alessandro_Ibi and Preebee like this.
  14. Numtini

    Numtini Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2023
    88
    87
    0
    Location:
    Cape Schrod
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Given the extremely limited charging from the sunroof, this is really just a rounding error. If you're not plugging it in, save yourself three grand and just get a Prius HV.
     
  15. AndersOne

    AndersOne Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    332
    189
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    There is no HV in europe and I have to take the whole package (including solar). Solar doesnt makes sense economically but given I barely commute, the car might be able to charge on its own for its next short dictance groceries trip or similar. Thats why I meant, MPG will be very confusing if you make only a few short trips with a lot of solar charging in the meantime.
     
    #35 AndersOne, Aug 14, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2023