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Home electric Problem -- why am I cursed?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by cyberpriusII, Jul 23, 2023.

  1. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    I seem to post here somewhat frequently about home electrical problems.

    The latest?

    All the lights in one circuit (?) now refuse to work. There are two three-way light switches that control the circuit. Five lights are on the circuit and one standard "plug in your power cord" outlet. All outside.

    The "outlet" only works if you turn on the lights. This was how it was "designed" and how it has worked for forever.

    Anyway, expecting hubby home late one night from "Who only knows," I turned the outside lights on for him. They went on as usual. Later, I noticed they were out. I checked all I could, but nothing.

    Hired a licensed electrician from a reputable firm. He has been to my place before. He could not figure it out.

    I may have it wrong, but best I understand is that the "white wire" is carrying 120 volts. And it should not be carrying any volts (least I am pretty sure he said that -- anyway some wire that should not be carrying any volts is carrying 120V).

    So there is 240V to the whole "circuit" so nothing is working. The breaker has not tripped, which also seemed to baffle him. He worked at it for 3 hours, up in attic, etc.

    did not charge me, said it was "safe,". And said he would ask other experts, but....

    Any wild thoughts?
    kris
     
    #1 cyberpriusII, Jul 23, 2023
  2. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    We had an outlet on a switched circuit (top of outlet’s and lights) that blew up (outlet itself burned)

    The switch, the outlet and a wire were bad resulting in an open circuit
     
    #2 Rmay635703, Jul 23, 2023
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Those are the kind of problems that get people thinking about re-wiring their house as part of their eventual home renovation plans. All homes need to be fixed up sooner or later and the more you can figure out now about how the whole place is wired the easier it will be to decide on what's the highest priority versus what's the lowest.

    The more advanced you can make your home electrical wiring the better because sooner rather than later the price of home solar and power walls that are fully integrated with your vehicles is going to be the new normal.
     
    #3 PriusCamper, Jul 23, 2023
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i doubt i can add anything to 3 hours work of a licensed electrian, but if it were my home, i would start at the circuit breaker with a volt meter, and work my way through the fixtures and outlet, looking for an anomaly.
     
    #4 bisco, Jul 23, 2023
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  5. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The only way a non-marked white wire (a neutral) is 120v to ground is when it is open somewhere. Meaning one of the neutral wirenuts is loose or the circuit's neutral to neutral bar in a breaker panel is open.

    You then have the hot feeding a load like a light bulb, feeding through it to the fixtures neutral which then uses neutral wires and interconnects via wirenuts to try to make it back to the panel. Open one of those neutral returns and some of the neutrals become hot through the load.

    Easier to draw out than describe. IMG_2441.jpeg
    I have bailed out Master Electricians on this one.
     
    #5 rjparker, Jul 23, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
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  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well-explained and well-drawn.
     
    #6 ChapmanF, Jul 24, 2023
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  7. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    It can happen if you drive a screw through the cable, shorting them together.
     
    #7 Rebound, Jul 24, 2023
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  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    That would trip the breaker instead of energizing the neutral to 120v.
     
    #8 rjparker, Jul 24, 2023
  9. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Well, still cursed, but what of it. Plan to try a new electrician at the end of the week, but have little faith.
    kris
     
    #9 cyberpriusII, Aug 8, 2023
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe it's time to burn some sage.
     
    #10 Trollbait, Aug 9, 2023
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  11. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    I know all of you have been waiting for the resolution of this issue. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

    But, it has been fixed. Sorta. Had another electrician out. He went through every outlet, every switch, went back into the roof, checked every single thing on the -- I will call it circuit> -- and could not find out why it was acting so screwy.

    So, and I may have the language wrong, but the "bad switch" (actually two different switches control these outside lights) was in a three-way grouping with two other switches. Those other switches had nothing to do with the "bad switch" other than sharing wall space....see pix.

    upload_2023-9-7_17-12-52.jpeg
    So, I am sure Bisco knows where I am going with this, but the electrician used the wiring from one of the other switches to power the "bad switch" and wire-nutted off the "bad wires" wires from the bad switch.

    So, the switch he used for this is the switch for six kitchen lights at 14w each. The outside lights that were affected run a total of about 100 watts. Most of the time the kitchen and outside lights are not on at the same time, although, sometimes they are.

    Anyway, he said it is no problem.

    And, after a day, it is not an issue. So happy now that it is getting dark earlier.
    Kris.
     
    #11 cyberpriusII, Sep 7, 2023
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Kris,
    i have no idea where you are going, or where you went.

    i have the same problem with my own daughter. she had someone retile her bathroom floor today. when they went to hook up the toilet, the feed hose wouldn't reach. the tiler had brought a new one with him, but couldn't get the old one off the toilet. he said, 'looks like you'll have to call a plumber'.
    i tried to talk her through it, but no luck.
    she said, 'why don't you pop over and take a look at it, then we can go out to dinner.'
    she's only 200 miles away, plumber is coming tomorrow :cool:
     
    #12 bisco, Sep 7, 2023
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  13. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Ah, my specialty is "water closet" hoses and innards. My dad was called to active duty...is that what it is called...when I was around 16.

    Not long after, our one and only "water closet" broke. I installed all new Fluildmaster innards. Not bad for a 16-year-old.

    I was so proud. My mom was so happy as we could not afford a pro.
    Kris
     
    #13 cyberpriusII, Sep 7, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2023
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  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    If he was gone for more than a few weeks he might have been "Recalled to active duty" or received an "Involuntary recall."
    These orders are generally for one year or less but squids can get up to another year tacked on to the same set of orders, IIRC.

    Some NatGuard members will get deployed by state governors for fire, flooding, famine, pestilence, civil unrest, etc...
    These are said to be 'called up.'

    The difference for the NG probably lies in who signs their checks.
     
    #14 ETC(SS), Sep 13, 2023
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