Featured Nearly Half of [US] Shoppers See Public Charging as an EV Dealbreaker

I tried to charge a Chevy bolt out of public level 2 charging station and the 45 minutes that it was there I blew $60 at the sushi bar spent about $20 for charge and only got another 40 mi. My time is worth $1.50 a minute so my total loss was $60 for my time $60 at the sushi bar and $20 for the charge. It's $140. Not doing that ever again

 

So you're saying the sushi wasn't that good?

I get what you're saying though, it can't always be easy to find a secondary use for time spent charging,

 

Sounds like the perfect storm.
Other than road trips, I've used public charging four times in my Bolt EUV. But they were just idle curiosity to see if that charger worked. Two of them were free and one was only 15 cents/kWh. Other than two road trips that were each over 2,500 miles, I have never actually needed public charging.

On the two road trips, I only had to wait for a charger one and that was only about 5 minutes. One trip averaged 8 cents/mile and the other was 5 cents/mile. Roughly the same as the Prius would have been. Only a few of the charges took more than 30 minutes and that's in a Bolt, which is one of the slowest charging cars out there.

I won't argue with folks who think that the public charging infrastructure is a show stopper for them. I'll just say that it really does need to get better but it's not been a show stopper for me. At worst, a minor inconvenience.

At home, I pay no attention to charging time. I normally set the charge limit to 75% since I rarely use more than 25% in a day. I get home, plug it in, and next time I leave, I have a full tank. Around home, it's about a penny per mile ... because I don't use public charging. If I could not charge at home, I would not have an EV.

Maintenance? It's going to be a while before I need to do anything besides rotate tires. Change the "transmission" oil (it's single speed gear reducer) every 97,500 miles. Then, at 150,000 miles replace the coolants (three of them). Otherwise, keep an eye on the cabin air filter and the gas lift struts for the hood and hatch.

Basically, my main transportation now is an appliance that makes about as much noise as my refrigerator, but has way better acceleration.

 

Even our AYCE Sushi bars are pretty good and somewhere in the $20-30 area, so long as you don’t have leftovers, the charges for leftovers are pretty steep.

 

My biggest bluefin was almost 50 pounds. After you take out the guts, head and tail (⅔ of the total weight) - i had
~15Lbs of (equivalent) sashimi. That was 5 years ago - back when our local Japanese restaurant costs would easily make that into over $50/oz. With fish costs like that - just catching ONE fish, easily paid for the 3-day trip into Mexican waters.
That's why I almost never go to sushi bars

Side note, hooking up to a blue fin was like hooking a line to the back of a VW
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Level 2 public chargers are intended to be destination chargers. They are at the place you plan to go so you can get a charge while doing whatever it is to be done. It isn't fast enough for regular refueling during a trip.

We do need more public chargers in general, but the numbers are increasing.

The pricing is high because a charger doesn't have another income stream. If gas stations couldn't sell drinks and snacks, the price per gallon would be higher. There is also inequitable rates in some areas. Not because of the chargers, but because of regulations. Some chargers can't legally charge for a kWh directly. So they charge by time. An EV with a slower charger at such a Level 2 charger is going to pay more, as the time rate is set for faster charging cars.

 

On a Tesla - any charge from DC at or above 20 kW triggers an algorithm that reduces range (eventually - when excess DC charging is done) to preserve battery life. Ergo 19.2 KW is 'max' wattage for the Tesla high power wall charger (hpwc) even though it is AC. It wouldn't be surprising if other manufacturers do a similar thing - learning from Battery degradation data gleaned from millions of Tesla miles - data sent back to the mother ship.
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Why is the trip cost the item some comment about?

What will it cost to buy the vehicle compared to another one?
What can you earn on the difference?
What will it cost to insure the vehicle?
What will it cost to maintain the vehicle?
What is the depreciation of the vehicle?

There are good reasons for buying an EV if your needs fit the one you might buy. But fuel cost isn't one of them because fuel costs are dwarfed by the other costs.

 

With fuel costs, a BEV was going to reach parity to an ICE in Europe before the pandemic.

 

Over what lifespan?

An equivalently optioned EV would have cost $12k more. Invested I would expect that difference to earn maybe 10% a year.
My hybrid has depreciated only about $1,500 over 4 years.
EV insurance costs would have been hundreds higher each year.
My repair/maintenance costs might be $7k higher over a 10 year period.
My fuel costs have been $500 a year for 7.5k miles a year. My fuel currently costs $3.04 a gallon.
My charger installation would have cost $3k. That would come out of checking so I'd not attribute investment gains that would be significant.

What would gas prices have to get to to make the total costs work? What would carbon taxes have to rise to? Or fuel tax?

Will I keep the car long enough to recoup the costs?

I'll grant the ride, handling, comfort, quietness advantages possible in the EVs favor. My brief ride in a MY causes me to agree to those positives.

But my post was about cost.

 

My recollection was of a report UBS put out in 2017. Seems the actual report with methodology is no longer up, though it sounded like the parity was based on TCO. Those typically done over a 3 to 5 year span of ownership. The parity point might have happened in 2018, but this report was for Europe, with its higher fuel prices. The ICE car is question was a conventional petrol or diesel. Though this article might be misrepresenting what cost parity is.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110619_ubs-study-predicts-electric-car-cost-parity-in-europe-in-2018

What is done with the price savings between two cars is outside the purview of a TCO. You could invest it, but then someone else could use it to buy a boat or remodel the kitchen.

Then the pandemic happened. UBS's cost parity prediction in 2020 was that it would be reached in 2024. 2022 would see a production cost difference between BEVs and ICEs of $1900. That might only apply to companies that have gone 'all in' with EVs.
Q-Series: Tearing Down the Heart of an Electric Car Lap 2: Cost Parity a Closer Reality? | UBS Global

This white paper was looking at TCO between the two in the US. I think from 2021. A short range BEV would reach TCO parity in 5.1 years on their model.
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1819507

A prediction of price parity for BEVs 300 mile BEVs over along segments with this study of costs and price.
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/ev-cost-benefits-2035-oct22.pdf

Another report. The EV Price Gap Narrows | BloombergNEF

 

Don't know how you got it for such a low price per kilowatt. Charge America charge me 48c/kW plus a connection charge And I only got enough electricity in 45 minutes to go another 40 mi. I went from a third fully charged to about a half fully charged. And I wasn't even in a hot climate I was in New Jersey a month ago. Wasn't hot then. I wasn't beating on the car so it's not like the battery was hot or anything. No one else was connected to the same charge port. Never again. I have high hopes for electric cars. This one bad experience really tainted my opinion. I'm very disappointed. I really had my eye on the Hyundai ionic 6. I'm still open to electric cars. Hope you can see how this terrible experience changed my opinion and it's going to be sadly hard to change it back. Possibly unfairly so part of what set me off on this was that it was a rental car and they handed it to me with just under half a charge. In New York City where do they expect me to get a charge when I pick it up at 10:00 a.m. and I need to use it all day? Never doing that again. I needed a rental car that I could use to go to to Jersey Sea family run errands and head back into the city. I didn't need to be dealing with this nonsense. And I needed it charged up for the next day how do I do that when I'm in the East village at 14th and 2nd parked on the street and I have to move the car to 15th Street and 3rd by 8:00 a.m.? You think there's a charge port at the tree? You think if I put a charge cord on the sidewalk and plugged it in the sewer it wouldn't be gone by morning? In New York City they'll steal the charge cord for the scrap copper. And where am I going to plug it in anyway? You think the landlord is going to let us plug into the building? Those things have old wiring anyway with low gauge and paper insulation. Definitely can't plug in anywhere and the parking garage doesn't have that option. My Prius gets 40 something miles to the gallon when I drive it without a trailer. I can go anywhere with it. I can refill the tank while I'm on the road and if I get 28 mi to the gallon because I'm pulling a trailer no problem because I can refuel in 10 minutes pull off the highway get fuel go to the bathroom and be on my way. I have high hopes for electric cars but unfortunately it just won't work for me right now

 

I really liked the EV6. I test drove it and has a lot of room. If the price for comparable to a gas powered car I would probably get it as a daily driver. I would still have the Prius for trips. I would probably still keep my Corvette because it's a six-speed manual and there's certain fun and having a car with a roof that comes off. Each car has its perks. I want to have an electric car. But it won't happen until the price comes down. I expect that will happen someday. That's when I'll get when I guess.

 

The car does accelerate amazingly well. I really liked how it drove but the rebound damping seemed a little bit too slow in the compression damping a little bit too soft. Am I wrong about my impression I don't know. Feedback would be good because I did enjoy how it drove overall

 

I think I'd agree with the suspension issues you mentioned. It does not ride or handle as well as my Prius Prime did, but that thing was amazing. I have no serious complaints about the Bolt.

I know what you mean about never doing "that" again. I went to New York City years ago and I ain't never gonna do that again! What a hellhole!! If I had committed some hideous crime and been sentenced to live in New York City, I would not have an EV either unless I could charge at home in my garage -- unlikely in NYC. The scenario you described is exactly why I continue to maintain that an EV is not for everyone. That day is still in the distant future. If not for home charging, I'd be hybrid (probably Prius) all the way.

Still, road tripping in the Bolt is not as bad as people make it out to be. There is a mind shift needed to enjoy it, though. Getting there relaxed and still able to walk has to become more important than getting there as fast as possible.

 

Seems like the most successful campaign againts EVs are EVs themselves. All it takes is for someone to own one for a day to realize all the problems that come along with it to never want one again. Then you get these EVs with 'range extenders' (gasoline generators) and youre back full circle to hybrids with extra steps.

I dont want to discourage anyone from buying an EV, i think EV are cool cars and i was a huge fan for them back in 2016. Still am, but wouldnt own one for the application of being a commuter car. Would own one if i was in middle of nowhere in a post apocalyptic world and i jerryrigged some solar panels to it to give me a full 50mile charge in maybe a weeks time. I dont see any other application for them other than a fun little golf cart build for recreational activities.

I will say electric motors are superior to regular transmissions in terms of longterm durability and acceleration. But to replace ICE completely? Wont happen

 

Some might debate this. But I'll just ...