1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2013 Cold Start Shaking - Head Gasket?

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by oldtechaa, Jun 18, 2023.

  1. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi everybody, used to be active in the Gen 2 forums, now in NZ with a direct import JDM 2013 (so manufactured in 2013, possibly even 2014 US model) Prius alpha with 133000km, or 80k miles. We've had it for about 7 months now, and I check fluids regularly and everything's perfectly stable, both coolant and oil. The coolant has been at the plastic seam since we bought it.

    It's been quite cold recently, but we haven't had any issues other than on cold starts sounding a little rough like you'd expect from a cold start. Until Friday, when it shook badly just like how everyone describes the initial phases of head gasket failure. Since then, it's back to exactly how it's been.

    Some people described this happening early on in ownership too without it being concerning, but a lot of the cases recently have been head gaskets. Obviously I'd love for it not to be the head gasket, but I'm getting used to the idea that it could be.

    I took the EGR pipe apart to see how bad it is, and here's what I found. It looked quite clean in my opinion. Just a little bit of carbon here and there, although the worst part was the manifold end. I have the experience needed for the EGR cooler/valve cleaning, but I don't have the time, temperature, tools, or level working area I'd need for that unfortunately.

    Intake Manifold End:
    [​IMG]

    EGR valve end:
    [​IMG]

    EGR valve pipe itself, which looks amazingly clean:
    [​IMG]

    Again, the coolant hasn't dropped, but I know some people's have suddenly started dropping.

    I'm planning to take it to the (independent) dealer garage tomorrow, simply because they specialize in hybrids and EVs, so they'll probably have the most experience with this engine specifically. How long do I likely have before the (likely) head gasket replacement becomes necessary? I have immigration expenses coming up soon, so a major expense is not easy on the wallet, but could be managed with tight spending. What options are there? A rebuilt engine is probably not super likely here in NZ, but possible. Also, it might not be affordable for our current situation.

    Any thoughts are welcome, thanks!
     
  2. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Reading the oil catch can thread, it sounds like lots of people have experienced the cold start shaking during a real cold soak, so I'm not sure how big of an issue 1 occurrence is in very cold weather. Is this just normal and I shouldn't worry yet until there are more signs of a head gasket issue? Really the only symptom so far is the one cold start shake, and the things leading me away from the head gasket hypothesis are the age (only 80k miles), the lack of coolant level changes, the extreme cold, and the good-looking EGR condition.
     
  3. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    1,106
    410
    0
    Location:
    South Central PA, USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    An occasional cold start shaking (misfiring) is not uncommon with this engine. I have owned my Gen 3 for 12 years, and it has happened 3 times. One of the times it happened, I remember the high humidity in the air. It was always a cold startup after sitting overnight. A small amount of water condenses in the intake manifold and then is drawn into the engine during startup. The water causes misfires and shaking. It sounds terrible , and then the engine runs normally after a few seconds.

    I do not think that you have a head gasket problem. Just keep a written record of when they occur with information about the air temperature, how long the car sat since it was turned off, and humidity in the air.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,664
    39,220
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Cold start shake seems to due to liquid in a cylinder. It can be from head gasket leaking coolant, or other reasons. Short start up and shut down of the cold engine the previous day has been another possible cause.

    That aside, it’s a good time to start thinking about full EGR cleaning. And following through. :)
     
  5. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    OK, good news, thank you everybody. I think I'm likely not going to do the EGR valve/cooler myself until spring in a couple months, but from the condition of the pipe I think it's not in dire need within a matter of weeks. I'll keep an eye on the sound and as long as it doesn't happen too commonly I won't worry about it.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  6. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    1,728
    559
    3
    Location:
    SE Texas
    Vehicle:
    2011 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Your screwed............ sorry
    Cooler most likely plugged and you have a bad head gasket.
     
  7. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    I'd appreciate constructive comments, thank you. What evidence do you have to indicate that? I know that your personal opinion of the Prius is full of doom and gloom, but many people have had the one symptom I have had and it often means nothing. So please back up your opinion.
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  8. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    3,311
    1,017
    0
    Location:
    Arcadia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Keep a close eye on the coolant level. Cold start in very cold weather could be the EGR sticking as you’ve suspected. Try to figure out if you have the updated EGR valve. There’s also a sticker on the bonnet that dealers place to indicate emissions compliance when the T-SB is applied, (which includes ECU flash).

    If the coolant starts going down I dare say (contrary to most belief here) to start right away with a bottle HG repair/stop leak. I am currently watching our coolant level on our 11 year old very low mileage car with this idea in mind. I may switch to a different brand stop leak though…
     
  9. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    If the coolant does drop I'm likely to have the HG replaced. I suspect that 80k miles is very early to have HG issues though, especially with what I'd expect Japanese driving cycles to be like (probably easier than American ones).
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,129
    50,045
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i'm getting a lot of low end stuttering and juttering lately. only 25k on the engine, and i suspect it's from the short run times of a phev.
    coolant is being monitored, i have to find someone to look at the egr circuit and clean it correctly if needed.
     
  11. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    3,311
    1,017
    0
    Location:
    Arcadia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Taking it on a fast freeway run may clear things up, say 20 mins at 70 MPH. (I think it’s called an Italian tune-up).
     
    bisco likes this.
  12. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    2,642
    1,140
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern S.C.
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    My guess is that you do not have a head gasket issue yet. Suggestions to minimize the risk and effort: When time and weather permit, check and clear out the EGR passages of the intake manifold. That's a lot easier than cleaning out the cooler, and at least as important. Then check overall EGR restriction the easy way, using any OBD-II scanner that can read Mode 6 On-board monitoring test results. That test will likely yield a reassuring value, as long as the engine isn't guzzling oil.
     
  13. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    1,728
    559
    3
    Location:
    SE Texas
    Vehicle:
    2011 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    ----USA----
    I know a lot about the Prius..... and yes they are a crappy car.... good mpg but that's it........ I've changed every part on the v....
    They are gloom and doom.....especiaLLY THE GEN 3....... I hope you don't have a blown HG but mine never had a rattle until, the HG went out.
    The only reason I post on here is in case someone is looking to buy a used Gen 3..... I hope they see the bad info.... I have received many pm's thanking me......
     
    bisco likes this.
  14. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Out of curiosity, what mileage did your HG go out?
     
  15. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    A little update from today. We did a lot more highway driving today, and it sounded great, even in the cold, and the coolant seemed to stay perfectly stable. I was concerned about a (very slight) lack of power (based on level 100kph cruise control power bars) early on, but I think it was simply because of the cold, because it wasn't an issue on the way back. Plus the drive to the town we headed to seems like a net level journey, but it's actually a slow steady climb.

    I booked in for an appointment at the shop just to do leakdown/borescope/hydrocarbon testing to definitely rule out the head gasket. I also asked my friend who has a 2010 Prius whether his engine ever shakes on cold starts, and he said it does sometimes, intermittently, and sounds like it has for a while. That's with an already replaced engine for several years. If the coolant is stable then I'm not going to worry about it, and I'll just make sure to clean the whole EGR circuit and possibly install an OCC.
     
    Brian1954 and Mendel Leisk like this.
  16. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Also, mileage steadily improved with the highway driving since it's mostly been driven in town lately.
     
  17. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    2,642
    1,140
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern S.C.
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Head gasket and cooler are likely fine, for now. Clean the intake manifold EGR passages when convenient.
     
  18. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    What is the best procedure for cleaning the manifold passages? I've seen a lot about the cooler/valve, but not a lot about the manifold side. Do you have a thread you point people to?
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,129
    50,045
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  20. oldtechaa

    oldtechaa Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    336
    222
    0
    Location:
    NZ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Alpha
    Model:
    N/A
    Appreciate it, thanks!