Featured I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped

If new car buyers kept their cars for 5 years instead of 3 then the price of used cars would go up. This could make people try to keep used cars for longer too, so I could see this as having an effect. But if we're transitioning from ICE to Electricity then you kind of want new car buyers to buy EVs and switch out often which would lower the price of used EVs. Otherwise people will be trying to hold onto their ICEVs for longer since they'd either have to buy new, which many families can't, or buy used EVs for practically new prices, which they probably can't either.

The only thing I feel duped with EVs was that Nissan increased the price of the battery of the car I bought, in a car that was going to need a battery during my ownership. I had hopes that the Leaf was going to be a cheap car to own for a long time, even with all it's limits. To me, sacrificing some practicallity for lower cost and environmental benefits was worth it. But when the cost of the battery went up, not down, from $5,000 to nearly what I paid for the car ($9,000) I was now sacrificing both practicallity and economy for the environment. I feel everything else that happened to me, including needing to be towed in the middle of winter, were things I knew could and would happen and were my fault, not Nissan's, not EVs' fault. But "Oh yeah! you lost 15% of your battery! Another 15% and you'll need to pay over $8,000 to be able to get to where you need to go and then rinse and repeat in another 5 years" wasn't what I wanted to hear out of an EV.

 

A co-worker just got her 2023 Chevy Bolt Friday and has it at work today...so I'll be checking it out. A former worker got a Tesla last year and I just asked him about it...said his tires needed changing at just 9,000 miles.....ouch...
Me? I doubt I'll ever get an EV, even if Toyota/Lexus makes it....just doesn't make sense financially.

 

Since Leaf and Prius batteries are air cooled they fail sooner. I would advise someone to avoid either unless it had very low miles and age. The first owners of either get most of the benefits.

 

Been there done that:

Worn out original on the right. The left was my first tuning replacement that narrowed the tread.


The original rims on the left and new on one the right. Lighter weight rims and tires saved substantial weight. But ENKWI does not make aero covers. I'm working that now.

Bob Wilson

 

Any evidence of such failing with Prius, or other air cooled, batteries?

The Leaf wasn't just air cooled, they were passively air cooled batteries. That is, no fan.

 

I'm not a fan of that.

Mike

 

Fan cooling is barely acceptable in less than two killowatt hour hybrid battery packs. In a full EV Leaf with the smallest 24kwh battery, air cooling shortens the life of an expensive battery pack. The reduced lifespan makes purchasing an old Leaf a non-starter for most especially with better used ev options available. All with liquid cooled and heated batteries.

 

Again, the Leaf has a passive cooling system. A passive liquid cooling system could yield the same results.

 

• 2001-03 - had weak "O" seals and poor internal cell-to-cell connectors. This led to significant heating at speeds over 65 mph in hot weather with loss of electrolyte water and eventual cell failure.
• 2004-09 - much improved internal cell-to-cell connection with lower internal resistance. One favorite 2001-03 upgrade was to replace the earlier modules from salvage Prius.

I really like the NiMH chemistry with proper handling of the heat, generated gas, and electrolyte, I've seen refurbished modules, replacing the lost water, have higher than the original spec performance. LiON has greater density but NiMH looks to have nearly infinite life.

Bob Wilson

 

I think there's still a big difference between a Leaf and a Prius. My Leaf was 3 years old and had lost 15%. At that rate it would have lost 30% by year 6. At that time Leafs didn't have long warranties. A Prius battery doesn't have to have a lot of range to be useful. Usually they need replacing at 12 years and beyond, more than double that of a Leaf's battery, and at 1/4 the cost. So replacing the battery in a Leaf is about 8 times more expensive over the life of the car than on a Prius.

 

Isn't that more a fault in the cell and battery design than in the cooling system?
Degradation of Leaf batteries is well documented. Even with the redesigned model, there can still be issues. If such were true of the Prius, there should be more evidence of it here. Unless Danny doesn't post because he is to busy hiding the evidence.

 

I no longer own a Prius so I have no opinion about whose at fault to blame:

• Toyota engineering
• Driver practices
• Man-made global warming

Bob Wilson

 

Apples & oranges. The 1st leafs crappy battery had to do all the work - whereas a Prius has the benefit of lightening the work load with the ice.
.

 

It still doesn't make the Leaf cheaper to own and operate, so if true, would make buying another EV a good way to dupe myself again.

Also there is still a sort of an apples to apples comparison here: a Prius' battery may not do all the work, but it is also much smaller doing a lot of work for such a small battery, many times hitting maximum charging and discharging rates. A Leaf's battery does all the work, but it's over 10 times bigger and for the most part isn't used at maximum charging and discharging rates except on rare occasions.

 

At about 4 minutes in, Robert addresses Mr. Bean's opinion.