Featured The Toyota bZ4X AWD Sets A New Low Record In Our 10% EV Road Trip Challenge (US Spec / CATL Battery)

toyota can't get a bev clue...

 

That quote... "I don't know what the Toyota engineers were doing... Nothing good".

Brutal.

 

That's a lousy review. He claimed that he was leveling the playing field, but in reality he was testing the configuration of the EV America charger. He ignored that of the 3 cars that he tested this way, not one displayed the actual State Of Charge of the battery pack. All three fudge that number so that the owner is less likely to damage the battery when charging or when driving that last 10 miles despite the SOC showing less than 10%

His sloppy test procedures showed when the screen displayed "no charging profile" at one point of the tirade against the car. There's another video online that shows what a difference it makes when EV America has a charging profile that is customized for each individual car model/battery pack/charger combination.

 

It says "Guest profile loaded", and it's for the nav.

 

Maybe the Board of Directors was like:

"What if we build an EV that's so terrible no one will buy it? Wouldn't that make it easier to sell hybrids instead?

 

Maybe a little, "We have to sell an EV in China. Maybe we can improve costs by selling it elsewhere."

The range looks a bit better compared to the domestics in China. Not sure how the charging and price looks.

 

Oh my god... Are you really this out of touch?

Haven't you watched the reviews of this garbage EV that's quite literally being made out of existing factory production contracts for parts that have been modified for EV, rather than entirely redesigned from the ground up to eliminate everything that's not needed?

At this point I don't know what's more absurd your wishful thinking that Toyota is actually making something viable in an EV or the actual joke of an EV that nobody is buying because of not just limited production, but also the fact that all the reviews frame every aspect of this hastily designed car to be a massive failure.

 

Did you drive this car? I have. My opinion is based on what I experienced, not on parroting others. You ought to try it.

I'm not so out of touch that I think a bunch of inexperienced geeks become mechanical engineers just because they say that they are now experts. One of the worst things a car company can do is to throw away decades of experience and proven designs in order to replace it with untried materials and processes designed and executed by newbies that have no experience.

 

Have you not seen my other comments on the bZ4X and siblings, fool.

My comment here is referencing the fact that many of the top selling domestic EVs in China are themselves made on ICE platforms, and would have EPA ranges shorter than what Toyota now offers. Toyota needed a BEV in order to continue to sell any cars there. Without that, they would have been content to sell some PHEVs and a handful of FCEVs for ZEV credits here. But hey, since they have to spend that R&D money on a BEV model, why not sell it elsewhere for a quicker return.

Too bad they didn't seek an outside opinion before doing so. It would have spared them the repeat embarrassment of the iQ EV. At least Toyota USA saved the gen4 Prime from having a PiP EV range, even if it did mean crappy cargo area.

 

They just ran the test with the base id.4. Tldr is, it charged faster, was more efficient, and less expensive then the b4zx.

Maybe the Toyota reboot will do better.

 

Saw where the next US Toyota EV is a 3-row wagon/van made in the KY plant that now makes Rav4s. New battery plant near Greensboro NC. No more details about the specs. Timeline 2025.

 

Meanwhile, Bjorn Nyland has had the BZ twice in three months to do full drives and tests. His second series of reviews on this model included one with the latest firmware, and fared far better than the first test vehicle he drove in March. The current state of charge, in percent, is clearly present on the screen in Bjorn's test car. I won't claim the BZ4X is a winner, but Toyota did make it a little better. Kyle mentions that fact in the video above, so he must have the earlier version.

All that said, Bjorn also didn't have to deal with the beleaguered EVA chargers since those aren't in Norway.

I won't link all nine latest BZ YouTube videos, many hours worth, but you can easily look at his YT channel.
Bjørn Nyland - YouTube

 

This topic has been beaten to death. We all know that bZ4X is not the fastest-charging BEV—because it was specifically designed and programmed not to be!

How about the following challenge: Which BEV can retain 90% of its original BEV range after 300,000 miles? I bet none except bZ4X.

 

Speculation, I suspect he is planning to advocate for more Australian battery material and military coordination.

The irony is Australia would be an excellent location for another Tesla Giga factory making batteries for both utility and transportation. Unlike another country whose initial are INDIA, Elon would not have to budget huge bribes. I would rather see an EV factory in Bangladesh before that other kleptomaniac country.

I have great admiration for Hornsdale ('The biggest prawn.') It has been a stellar example of utility grade, battery buffer colocated with a wind farm. My understanding is Tasmania had one of the first 'flow batteries' which is another excellent technology ... if still in operation.

Bob Wilson

 

I don't think it's just the charging... I think a lot of people are fascinated at the number of mind bogglingly poor decisions that went into the car.

Like: why is the more expensive b4zx saddled with the poorer of 2 batteries? Shouldn't the more expensive version charge faster? The Lexus version does, why not the Toyota?

Why did they underspec the heating system, forcing a glovebox delete?

 

We are sill in the early days of battery chemistry and the NMC chemistry of my Model 3 has a built-in 'degradation' curve:

So my estimated 10% degradation after 4 years and 108,000 miles is still in the stabilization phase. But 'lessons learned' means the battery is being more carefully managed and with benchmark performance curves, still accomplishing my trips.

Bob Wilson

 

Capacity longevity is a combination of not just high speed charging but also of aging - number / frequency of QC charges etc.
From Bjorn's video, even after software upgrades the BZ seems to charge slow after the first couple qc's.
.

 

How many cars of any type make it to 300k miles? At average annual miles in the US, that's a 20 year old car. At that point, other age related degradation can take out the battery before capacity loss. Then what is known of these chemistries will see most of that 10% capacity loss happen in the first few years. It is simply how these batteries break in, and it doesn't appear Toyota is 'hiding' buffer capacity to compensate for it.

The bZ4X's battery warranty if for 8 years or 100k miles in the US. The minimum capacity level in that coverage is 70%. Which matches the Model 3 RWD's. The other 3's and Y have the mileage bumped up to 120k miles, with 150k for the S and X.

It appears EV manufacturers dual purpose the motor controller hardware for DC charging to save costs and weight, which results in charge rates around that of the motor's rating. The RZ and bZ4X FWD have a 150 kW motor, and the bZ4X AWD and Solterra swaps out the 150 kW front motor for a 80 kW one.

There are other factors, like pack voltage, that determine charge rates, but this seems to be the case here. Or Toyota just doesn't trust CATL.

Like heated seats and steering wheel, radiant heating could make the occupants comfortable without wasting energy to heat the entire cabin space. There is a bit of marketing involved. The Prius was the first Toyota brand car to have features only found in a Lexus. BMW has been looking into radinat heating in EVs for over a decade, and the iX has it as an option. Though they seem to manage to keep the glove box.
BMW USA News - The New BMW iX Design 

In Tesla's 2022 impact report, their cars(possibly just the S and X) are averaging 12% capacity loss. 2021 was at 10%.
Tesla: Battery Capacity Degradation Averages 12% After 200,000 Miles
"Tesla explains that it does not expect too many battery replacements, because the cars often get scrapped in the United States after roughly 200,000 miles (in Europe it's 150,000 miles)."

 

That curve strongly depends on the charge rate and discharge rate.

The values on the y-axis make no sense. Typical lithium-ion capacity per cell area is 30 Ah/m².