Featured Americans insist on 300 miles of EV range. They’re right

I'm not likely to take this trip. But if I were, I would also map the L2 chargers at side trips. FYI, I did not include the newly available CCS-1 chargers.

Bob Wilson

 

Is this the new "uphill both ways, barefoot in the snow?"

 

From what I’ve seen on user videos, extreme cold weather like what happens in the upper midwest US & Canada can drop range by up to 50%, so for sustained daily driving when the car is 10+ years old, that’s 250 mi to 225 mi (10% battery life degradation) to 202 mi (90% typical state of charge) to 101 mi (50% reduction from temperature & weather conditions). So it’s still 100 miles, but it’s something to pay attention to when you’re in those conditions for 3-5 months a year.

 

Two Words:
Evacuation Traffic Jam.

Cars trying to flee fire in Sonoma County stuck in traffic - ABC7 San Francisco
Hurricane Irma: Traffic jams during hurricane evacuations are entirely preventable

I've seen more of the latter than the former, but either one would be exacerbated by a vehicle with a suboptimal tank range, especially if these events don't have the common courtesy to schedule their appearance.
Common sense (like common courtesy) is rather curiously named.
It's like naming a grossly corpulent human 'slim.'

Is 250 tank miles 'enough?'
For some, yes.
For MOST, given some forethought and planning, "probably."

ACTUAL mileage will vary of course, but there's a saying in the military that started waaaaay back in Dubbaya Dubbaya One, and has never really lost currency:
"Speed is Life."

If you're stuck for an hour trying to jam two hours worth of amps in the can.....that doesn't seem to be very 'speedy.'
NOT TO MENTION the battery degradation caused by fast DC charging versus L2.

ICE didn't happen overnight - or even over a few decades.
We should not expect that EVangelism will happen more swiftly.
Back in the day, travel on horseback was limited to about 35 miles per day, and was not supplanted by trains and automobiles because people were brow-beaten into accepting less convenient, AND less capable modes of travel.

 

ice didn't have government incentives, nor the sophisticated technology of modern manufacturing.

take up rate was driven solely by demand

 

Same is true for tobacco.

Bob Wilson

 

I see that you still ignore the non-Interstate criteria, betraying a strong aversion to non-Interstate routes. Except for Minnesota, your mapped route is 100% on the undesired I-90/94 racetrack across 1150 miles of ND, MT, ID, and WA, and not an inch of the desired US-2 or SR-20. A completely different set of scenic and historic sites and sights and activities, for those who stop to enjoy such things.

Glacier National Park. Cabinet Mountains Wilderness. Great Bear Wilderness. Upper Missouri River Breaks National Monument. Charles M Russell Nation Wildlife Refuge. Theodore Roosevelt National Park, North Unit. (The different South Unit is on I-94.) North Cascades National Park. Pasayten Wilderness. International Selkirk Loop. Etc.

 

Neither did the first BEVs, and they were more popular than ICE models until Cadillac added an electric starter.

ICE cars had some convenience advantages over EV, but the big one was in using a cheap fuel that was seen as just a by-product from petroleum refining.

 

Okay there wasn't an explicit rebate or tax incentive, but the gubmint sure built a lot of roads meant for cars instead of horses or trains.

Also look at everything they gave the petroleum industry, thus guaranteeing fuel availability at fairly stable prices for over 100 years.

 

Gotta go uphill to get to the skiing. We get several dozen ski days each year. While many ski friends of our age now focus on the bluebird days, we find better snow and shorter lift lines on the days that aren't. The occasional road closures for avalanche control or to allow snowplowing operations to catch up, haven't been enough to deter us.

Also gotta go uphill to get across the mountain passes. With making a handful of round trips to the family farm each winter, two major uphills away, I typically encounter severe weather on at least a couple of the legs over the season.

 

No problem as my driving is goal oriented, point-to-point. If I'm going to 'Glacier National Park', it will be using the most efficient way to reach it. Once there, I'm out of the car to enjoy the destination, typically 10 times longer than it took to drive there.

Wandering around is consistent with spending hours in a car paying +$3/gal. Do you even stop in the parking lots or non-gas station bathrooms or just drive through slowly?

Somehow I doubt this is a single trip:

Glacier National Park. Cabinet Mountains Wilderness. Great Bear Wilderness. Upper Missouri River Breaks National Monument. Charles M Russell Nation Wildlife Refuge. Theodore Roosevelt National Park, North Unit. (The different South Unit is on I-94.) North Cascades National Park. Pasayten Wilderness. International Selkirk Loop. Etc.​

So how long did it take you?

Bob Wilson

 

Anybody crazy enough to travel EITHER of the (~275 miles apart) two parallel highways 90 or 94 in the winter time? Even in an ICE is foolish. You're talking potential hellacious winds, iced over roads, snow drifts & sub-zero temps that can happen in less than ½ a day. Even in late spring. Worrying about losing range in the winter? No - don't try it in ANY car. The carnage I witnessed foolishly trying this .... thought I was going to get PTSD.
Watched STOPPED big rigs being slowly blown off the iced-over interstate into ditches. Even the assisting Highway Patrol dude ... stooped way over - was slowly being blown across the ice.
Never again.
.

 

I can rent for the 2%, but needs for a bigger car are dictated by the size of my kids (one NFL lineman sized, one a small forward) , the number of grands (3), the luggage we take. And their frequency. Probably twice a week one of these comes into play

For a trip we sometimes make twice a week, we need the Rav4 because it will handle size better than the Avalon. For 4 for golf, For NFL in the front seat.

300 would be fine even in winter if the size was right.

 

If a BEV is to replace our only car, then a minimum 300 miles EV range would be a starter, but it is still not enough for my frequent long "day-trip" requirement. Two things have to happen. More charging infrastructure AND quicker charging time. Charge 300 miles of EV range in 5 min or less, then I will start seriously thinking about replacing our PHEV.

 

Location, location, location!

To minimize battery degradation, I daily charge to ~160 mi, 75%, for driving around town. However, this is within range of SuperChargers to the North, East, South, and West. Yes, I have a 'bug out' backpack in the trunk.

Bob Wilson

 

I.e not picking up numerous additional places along the way.

Spouse isn't able to wait for just refueling stops, needing numerous more pit stops along the way, and prefers nicer places than typical gas stations. Now I'm getting to that age too.

Lots of hikes in the 1 to 5 hour range. Many scenic overlooks. Pedaled on 10 or 11 bicycle trails of varying lengths. Just one, on the Paul Bunyan Trail in MN, was near enough to the Supercharger in Baxter to have served as a good trailhead parking point. Times in the Wilderness areas are exclusively on hiking boots, as wheels are prohibited on federal Wilderness lands.

Some days with more time spent afoot, overnight charging with lodging will be sufficient. But on numerous other days where significant road distance is intended, it won't.

I'm remembering that cross-continent trip as 44 days, though somewhere else wrote it as just five weeks. We take at least two weeks, up to four, for other similar trips. Such as going to South Dakota to visit Rushmore, Custer State Park, Badlands, and Wind Cave State Park, then hit Rocky Mountain National Park on the way back. Or several others through the central Nevada and Utah deserts for Great Basin, Bryce, Zion, Capital Reef, Canyonlands, Arches National Parks, and numerous Monuments and state parks too. There are tons of things to string together to see and do and hike, when one isn't focused on just point-to-point travel.

Of course not. That is why we need to repeat it multiple times, spread over many years. There are just so many things to see and do, far more than enumerated on that list, far too many to fit into just a few trips. We were planning to do it again in autumn 2020, but other happenings canceled the destination event.

Apart from the supercharger just a mile (easy bicycling distance) off the Paul Bunyan Trail in MN, and good L2 charging at Stevens Pass Ski Resort where the Pacific Crest Trail crosses US-2, I just haven't been seeing charging stations at or near the trailheads where we park and lace up our hiking boots and let the car sit for extended periods.

No casinos for us, except for brief bathroom breaks.

 

I-90 is our primary winter route for skiing at Schweitzer / Whitefish / Bridger / Big Sky / Jackson, or nordic at Crosscut or into Yellowstone NP. But in winter we don't venture as far east as the I-90 / I-94 junction. Though some in-laws do, and have more 'interesting' winter driving stories to tell.

Yes, we were in Big Sky to ski when it was too cold (history shows -38F at Belgrade, -43.2 at Gallatin Field Airport) for ski operations more than three decades ago, semi-tractors were stopped along the roadside with their diesel gelled, and railroad cars were blown off the tracks up north. We drove half way home on the coldest day of that Arctic deep freeze anyway. And we keep coming back periodically for more skiing. Even extended our stay at Big Sky when all the roads to Jackson were closed by excessive snowfall for multiple days, just a few years ago.

Technically speaking, I am a western Montana native, despite having lived there only briefly. Numerous relatives are still there.

 

We took a trip to remote South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming and North Dakota some years ago. What a wonderful time. Our favorite areas were the Badlands, Devil's Tower and just the remote rugged beauty of Nebraska and North Dakota.

We like tent camping and hiking, exploring. Charging a vehicle wouldn't make the top 100 of what I want to think about on these remote trips.

 

Lived in the eastern edge of North Dakota when I was much younger. I-94 was the only road west of the city. I-90 was the only road I have travelled in South Dakota to visit a friend's home during holiday. Yeah, I have driven through some ground blizzard. Didn't think anything of it then. But would I do it now? Probably not. On a BEV or not.

 

Always knew you were a closet prepper.....