Project Lithium Nexcell V2

Just FYI - it's not a "ChrisFix" battery. There are several companies now that sell this cylindrical solution. ChrisFix is just a guy on YouTube that does auto stuff. He did a very in depth video on switching out the original with a new pack, and he even mentioned in the end don't expect 68mpg - expect more of a real-world 40-50s.

In a nutshell, the cylindrical batteries replace the original prismatics. Both have the same chemistries, NIMH. You can do a search on these forums, people have been using them for a few years now. Personally I don't trust the LiOn project, so for me I like this solution. Edit - not trying to hijack this thread. The V2 project is very cool.

 

Outperform? Let see, ChrisFix test drives battery for 21 miles, Chrisfix battery gets 68mpg, wow, done, looks better than ProjectLithium.

Grit needs to add this calculation to his signature.

 

I will agree with this. To each their own.

 

I've been spreading the word about this guy. I'm sorry...

 

For several reasons I guess. Mainly, the car wasn't designed for lithium packs. If Toyota certified one for this car, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.
I build lithium packs for projects as well, took a Razor scooter and converted it to lithium ion, converted my regular mountain bike to an eBike, built a portable power station for camping among others. I just know how dangerous they can be - I've seen first hand how they can fail spectacularly. But I'm not trying to be negative against this project, again I think it's a very cool project.
I just need to know a lot more before trusting it in a car my wife drives the kids around town in all while the lithium pack is in a constant state of charge/discharge.

Maybe in their next video can they go into more detail on the packs for geeks like me:

How many cells are used per blade and in what s/p config?
What is the minimum charge cycle lifespan of the cells?
What BMS is used? Is that also manufactured in-house?
Are they using any type of step converter?

 

But the inverter/controller is only getting HV DC from a source. It doesn't care what flavor the cell chemistry is.
But you know that....

 

I suspect Dirk's interest had more to do with the other half of the time, when the inverter/controller is sending HV DC to a battery, which it is programmed to treat as NiMH.

 

Well - it's more that the chemistry is LiOn and this car was not designed, or certified by Toyota, for that. Like I mentioned before, I've been building packs (and have bought many packs as well) for years. I've seen them fail, and sometimes quite spectacularly. You can go watch youtube videos of lithium packs failing if you want. For me it's a safety issue, I'm not trusting this project to be put in my family car that's all. Wish I had a separate project car which I would put this in, but I don't.

 

I think that's what I was getting at too. When the car is programmed to treat the battery as NiMH and the battery isn't NiMH, good results are not guaranteed.

The Nexcell folks do claim to have an answer for that, but I can understand wanting to know more about it.

 

What is the regen amount of kW in a Gen3?
It feels small. That's the concern? What if the Li-ion pack is easily rated for that amount of charge current?

 

33 kW if I remember right.

I get the impression that Dirk has more expertise with battery charge control than I have, so maybe I shouldn't be serving as interpreter here. I think I did learn enough, at one point, to be cautious about saying what amount of charge current a pack is rated for, without taking various things like temperature and state of charge into account.

 

This might be a stupid question but I can not seem to find a place on the project lithium site to preorder and I've never seen the gen 2's in stock. Am I missing something?

Edit: apologies I missed the other posts in this thread asking the same question.

 

Why is a geek conflating Li-ion with LiFePO4.

Lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery differs from a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery. The two batteries share some similarities but differ in performance, longevity, and chemical composition. LiFePO4 batteries are known for their longer lifespan, increased thermal stability, and enhanced safety

 

Well if he’s an expert then why the spectacular failures, and no such Nexcell failures to date…

 

The deniers here say there’s no battery degradation to li on batteries when charging below 32F temps, can you confirm that and include low temp cut off circuits?

 

How does your question have anything to do with your quotes. I didn't say anything about battery degradation to li on batteries when charging below 32F temps.

 

This is a good point!
With no Thermal Management System for a replacement Li-ion pack in a Gen 3, how well will these packs perform at temp extremes?
Both high and low temps need attention with Li-ion.
Yes, once the cabin is warmed up in the winter or cooled down in the summer, air will gently be blown thru the cells, but how long before all the cells get back to a happy temp?

Now I question this 'upgrade'. Maybe the use of LiPo can handle typical temp extremes....

 

It is common for lithium-based 12v auto battery replacements to include their own BMS and protective circuitry, as described, for example, here and here.

So, bringing them up in this context actually highlights what the people with questions about the Nexcell would like to know more about.

 

Fair enough on the LiFePO4 - I'm well aware of what they are and I have a bunch of these. Sorry for not stating properly. All I'm saying is that this car wasn't designed for lithium anything - these can still catch fire even if its as much lower chance. I'm not saying the Nexcell batteries aren't safe and I'm not aware of any that have failed. I'm saying the car wasn't designed or certified for them and that is the reason I'm passing on it. Sorry for not making that clear, again I'm not knocking this project at all. My other questions are solely that I want to know more about the technology behind it.

 

So in doing a few searches to find out more info beyond their website, I stumbled on the creators youtube channel. He has some really great videos that go into more depth. I also found one on another channel that detailed a teardown of a blade. For those interested: Hybrid App - YouTube

 

What do you mean not designed or certified for? Gen 3 cars weren't designed or certified for many things like the Gen 4 engine, yet there's plenty of swaps out there running just fine.