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Drum Roll Please - The Highest 1st Quarter Selling Electrified Vehicle was NOT the RAV4 Hybrid

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Apr 29, 2023.

  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Toyota Motor North America Reports March, First Quarter 2023 U.S. Sales - Toyota USA Newsroom

    According to the first quarter U.S. sales for 2023, the highest selling electrified vehicle was the ...... Toyota Highlander Hybrid.
    It sold almost 1,300 units more than the 2nd place Toyota RAV4 Hybrid which saw a 49.6% drop from 2022 1st quarter sales. Number 3 was the Toyota Corolla Hybrid buoyed by new model year and was up over 57% over 2022 1st quarter. 1st quarter 2022 number 2 seller, Toyota Sienna, slid 47.7% to number 4 for 1st quarter 2023. Number 5 went to Lexus RX Hybrid which saw an almost 75% sales gain over the same period in 2022. No breakout though over the RX 500h and RX 350h numbers. Toyota Venza slid to number 6 from its number 4 last year as sales were down 31%. Tundra Hybrid (i-Force MAX) grabbed number 7 while the RAV4 Prime picked up number 8 with a 3.5% gain in sales over 1st quarter 2022. The Prius hung on to the number 9 slot by 223 units over number 10, Toyota Sequoia.

    About the only vehicles that the final year of the 2nd gen Prius Prime outsold in the 1st quarter of 2023 were the Lexus NX 450h+, Toyota Mirai, Lexus RZ 450e, Lexus LS 500h, Lexus LC 500h and the Toyota Avalon Hybrid.

    In total, Toyota Electrified sales were down almost 16% from last year, but Lexus Electrified sales were up over 36% over same quarter last year. And yes to be fair the vehicles you couldn't find on the lot were the RAV4 Hybrid, Venza, Camry Hybrid, Sienna and Sequoia. On our local lots here, the bZ4X, RAV4 Prime easily outnumber all but the Corolla Hybrid. It'll be interesting to see how well the new Prius and Prius Prime sells in 2023's 2nd quarter, but it might be supply constraints that do it in.

    Place Vehicle Number Sold
    1 1 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 20927
    2 2 Toyota RAV Hybrid 19633
    3 3 Toyota Corolla Hybrid 12454
    4 4 Toyota Sienna 10486
    5 5 Lexus RX Hybrid 7641
    6 6 Toyota Venza 7466
    7 7 Toyota Tundra i-Force MAX 6989
    8 8 Toyota RAV4 Prime 5416
    9 9 Toyota Prius 4592
    10 10 Toyota Sequoia 4369
    11 11 Lexus NX 350h 3807
    12 12 Toyota Camry Hybrid 3702
    13 13 Lexus UX 250h 3191
    14 14 Lexus ES 300h 2229
    15 15 Toyota bZ4X 1698
    16 16 Toyota Crown 1393
    17 17 Toyota Prius Prime 994
    18 18 Lexus NX 450h+ 959
    19 19 Toyota Mirai 668
    20 20 Lexus RZ 450e 185
    21 21 Lexus LS 500h 25
    22 22 Lexus LC 500h 9
    23 23 Toyota Avalon Hybrid 3
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    did toyota supply enough rav4 hybrids?
     
  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Nope and they didn't sit on the lot long either. Most were sold before they got to the dealers.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    save the batteries and chips for more expensive vehicles ;)
     
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  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    It helped that Canada is pumping out NX Hybrids and RX Hybrids to get ahead of the UX Hybrids which are made strictly in Japan. Canada is also now sending RAV4 Hybrids as well but they can't keep up with demand as Japan is sending all of their plug-ins here over hybrids. This is after 2/3's of their plug-ins go to Europe, so it seems Japan is sticking to making the plug-in versions of the same hybrids they farmed out to Canadian and US factories.
     
  6. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    As an Avalon hybrid owner, I'm surprised that car didn't sell. Only 3? Of course I guess they don't offer that car anymore, But the Crown didn't sell that well either. The Prius Prime didn't sell too well either in comparison. The Camry hybrid didn't do great either. To me that's sad as the type of cars I like the most seem to be the kind no one else likes, which in turn means they end up going extinct or becoming really expensive luxury cars only a few rich people are going to buy.

    On the other hand, I'm surprised at number 4. The first three make sense from a popularity standpoint, people either love SUV's or they buy the smallest cheapest economy car they can. But I thought minivans were on their way out. I guess I was wrong.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yep, 2022 was the Avalon's last model year. The Crown is a 2023 model, so availability could be a factor, in addition to its price.

    The Sienna is available only as a hybrid. That's going to help its electrified numbers. The sedans are competing against an ICE version, with the hybrid adding $2k to $3k to the MSRP. They are actually doing better. Historically, hybrid sales made up around 10% of a model's total. Eyeballing it, the Camry hybrid is at 15% and Corolla at 20%.

    In US, the Rav4 and Highlander hybrids are only available with AWD. This lets Toyota 'hide' the hybrid premium in the profits from the ICE AWD system. Which could be why fewer are available for sale than the ICE model.
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    LOL, yup, wrong. We've owned four over the years (if I count the Mazda5) and even tho' we owned other types of vehicles, we keep coming back. As I state in my sig below, it's the "One to rule them all". If you compare a 6/7 passenger SUV vs a 7/8 pass van, it's no contest as the van simply has more utility yet SUV's sell so the Sienna is #4 not #1.

    The #1 complaint on Sienna forums isn't hardware or even software related, it's finding one to buy and/or paying beyond MSRP. They are made at the same plant as the HH.

    We've been doing a lot of driving out west in the mountainous areas where infrastructure including cellular is very limited but highlander and rav4 hybrids are very popular.
     
    #8 fotomoto, Apr 30, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Amazing! 668 Mirai were sold this year. Does Mirai still qualify for the incentive? I believe they are sold only in CA.
     
  10. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    The Mirai's sales were off a little under 7% from the same time period last year. Pretty sure the Mirai isn't long for this market as it'll end up competing with the Crown Sedan that will be sold with a fuel cell powertrain. None of Toyota's off shore factories are jumping in to say they want to make the Mirai or any fuel cell vehicle for that matter.

    A lot of the sales has to do with availability. Toyota and Lexus have slowly been switching their factories from making hybrids to plug-ins as a lot of off-shore factories spool up to make hybrids. About the only hybrids they make now are typically for domestic production or the two or three models they keep in their factories, like Venza, Prius, and Crown. The three vehicles that haven't shown up yet in their sales charts are the Lexus RX 450h+, Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid, and the Grand Highlander Hybrid.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    FCEVs get an incentive(s), and I don't think they are subject to the same limits as plug ins.
     
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    What is the cost of filling up Mirai with H2 where the commercial H2 pumps are available?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Drum roll is a good way to present that information. It highlights the usual reaction to quarterly sales... that of disinterest for the bigger picture. It was worse in the past, when counts were posted on the monthly basis. Unfortunately, switching to less often clearly didn't help. There should be attention & concern for the absence of any type of clear strategy for transition to plug-ins, rather than still obsessing with results every 3 months.

    It was nearly 2 decades ago when focus on short-term gain really got out of hand, resulting in direct attacks on Prius with the "stop gap" rhetoric from GM. There was a growing sense of desperation, that Toyota had strong potential to grow beyond being a one-step wonder with Prius. For those really on their game, they would discover Toyota offered 2 other hybrids in Japan... Estima & Crown. The status quo took its first real hit. Following that, it did here too with Highlander & Camry becoming hybrid models.

    Fast-Forward to 2023, we see 9 varieties of non-Prius being offered here... 10 if you don't count the sedan & crossover versions of Corolla as the same. Each of the hybrids benefits from generational upgrades. 4 of them are only offered as hybrids, no traditional model. It is clear evidence of Toyota now being well into their engine-only phaseout effort. That "stop gap" is serving as a means of funding BEV investment, while at the same time ensuring used vehicles during the BEV transition are much cleaner and more efficient than other legacy automakers. Looking at the totals, I would say 87,419 sales in Q1 for Toyota brand non-Prius, non-plug hybrids is indeed contributing to that master plan.

    Notice how the legacy automakers who present an "all in" sentiment really don't have any type plan for how to deal with their own transition? It is about to get ugly, when demand for their plug-in puts their dealers in an extremely difficult position of having no reasonable alternative to actually sell. Long wait-lists are inevitable. It's that part of the S-Curve no one wants to talk about. For those of us who's career involves long-term strategy, we see lots of warning flags popping up.
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yep, that would be a total deal breaker even if the H2 Pumps are available near me.

    Going back to Toyota's list. Not that they are affordable enough, but if they get similar incentives as some other PHEV or BEV, I would definitely go for HiHy or Sienna for our next long-trip vehicle, skipping all the others completely. I hope they will get Plug-in Highlander and/or Plug-in Sienna that would qualify for the $7500 tax credit before it expires in the future.

    We recently traded in both Pathfinder Hybrid (3-row midsize SUV) and Prius Prime for Escape PHEV. I was hoping a single plug-in subcompact SUV will serve the dual purpose of shorter in-town daily drive by EV and long haul with enough cargo and comfort by HV. After ~6mo with a single car in the household, I learned that Escape PHEV is just not as efficient as a PP and not as comfortable as Pathfinder Hy. I have done several ~600 miles trips on this car, and we truly miss the efficiency of the PP and the comfort of Pathfinder on the long road trip.

    When traveling over 600 miles with 4 adults, the ride comfort and seating/cargo space are essential features. It seems smaller cars including compact SUVs are lacking in this regard.
     
  16. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I share your enthusiasm for the Toyota Sienna. They are unbeatable for long trips. Their comfort, efficiency and utility are unmatched. When we traded in our 2004 a few years ago a new Sienna was our first choice - until we began pricing them. Holy cow! In 2021 to get the features we wanted the asking price was over $50,000. Plug in Sienna - great idea but the price would probably stagger the imagination.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I agree. It will be very expensive. When I was looking for a PHEV to replace both the 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid and the 2021 PP, I considered a new 22 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in as well for it also qualified for the full tax credit last year (and this year as well). But the price of Pacifica Plug-in was over $50K already last year. The Sienna Plug-in will definitely be even more.

    We had a 2005 Sienna XLE AWD but had to decommission it early at only 100kmiles due to rust issues. Although I would agree with the comfort and utility of the Sienna from that era, I was never impressed with its efficiency. The lifetime mpg on our 2005 Sienna was only 19mpg. I might have gotten a few miles over that on a highway trip, but it was always more costly to drive a Sienna than any other cars I owned after 2005. A primary reason for getting the 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid (used) to replace the Sienna was the fuel efficiency. I was hoping it to get EPA rated 25 city / 28 highway from it. But in the end, it also disappointed me. I could get up to 30mpg on Hwy with the PathHy, but only if there are no loads, meaning no passenger or cargo, and without any heat or AC. In most real-world situations ~24mpg was the best it could get. A bit better than the 2005 Sienna but not enough in my book. Current Toyota offerings of Sienna hybrid and Highlander Hybrid are EPA-rated 36mpg combined. If this is true in the real world, they would be very close to what I am actually getting from the 2022 Escape PHEV on highway trips.
     
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  18. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Our Sienna was a 2004 LE FWD. We kept it for 150,000 miles. Its average mpg was 25 mpg but on the highway driving modestly I could approach 30mpg. That Sienna V-6 was the perfect engine for that vehicle, we did tow infrequently and it never let me down. Some friends had a Seinna AWD and their gas mileage was similar to yours.

    I'm not complaining about the price of a Sienna they are probably worth it, just a little impressed by it - probably because I can remember a time when you could buy a brand-new VW Bug for $1999. I am sure a 70 year old with only one child left at home is not the target consumer for the Sienna. If I really needed one I would bite the bullet, go back to work, earn the money and then cough it up for a new Sienna- but I do enjoy retirement and found another vehicle to satisfy our transportation needs at a price point I could swallow without too much indigestion.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    our kids purchased an odyssey, only because a sienna could not be had.
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That was our conversion van back in the mid 90's. Unmatched for road trips.