Edmunds.com: 2023 Prius Prime vs. 2023 Niro PHEV

TBH, I was quite surprised on the range state of things. Prius severely undelivered? That's really unusual to see.
Other than that I had fun watching this review, often he mentioned features as pros which I personally consider as a big disadvantage - like AC controls.

 

It is ridiculous to drive the car at 70 mph and claim that the EPA range cannot be met. The EPA range is for about 55-mph driving.

 

The choice between these two cars would be quite easy for me. I loathe dual clutch gearboxes so the Kia is out of the picture for me.

 

Well, I'm impressed by the comparison, allegedly on the same kind of test: 31,8 vs 33,7 ml when EPA range is 31 vs. 39.

I'm not used to Edmunds testing, are they organized in such a way to allow a realistic comparison?

I'm particularly interested in that test, because at the end I'm going to choose exactly between those two cars.
And perhaps being forced to exclude the Prius because the Niro it's pretty sure will be a lot cheaper in my country (unlike US, odd). This will also be because the Niro can get an ecobonus unlike the Prius.

 

I suspect the mileage on the Prime was lower due to way the car was driven during the tests. You have to be conservative with the accelerator and speed to get full EV range. He said the Niro's engine kicks on when required. A Prime stays in EV mode up to 85 MPH or when the battery is depleted. Does anyone seriously think a Kia engine comes anywhere near the build quality and longevity of a Toyota?

 

Well, the Prime does not stay, as all PHEV, in EV up to 85 mph, but until the power required gets a certain threshold.
85 mph is a speed limit not a power limit.

And yes, it seems Kia is doing even better than Toyota....
https://thekoreancarblog.com/2022/02/11/kia-ranks-1st-on-jd-power-2022-vehicle-dependability-study/

 

Some of what the tester stated, I kinda have to question the validity or at least the testing parameters. While I know the 2023 has a larger engine and battery - there's no way a 6 speed DSG transmission would yield better overall mileage than the Prius Prime CVT setup. He did state the the 30 mile range was ev only; but I know that Kia will fire the engine if you hit that accelerator pedal too hard. There may be a lock-out in the 2023 Kia to prevent this. He also mentioned this in the video; so if they had to drive the Kia very gently to keep the ICE from kicking on - of course you're going to meet or exceed the OEM specifications. That's not real world driving.

The other issue, he didn't mention the $3.5K price differential; which is huge when calculating cost of ownership.

Buyer beware when using Youtube as a research data collection tool.... Just saying.....

 

On my 2021 Prime, if your in EV Eco mode - The engine will NOT kick on; unless you hit the lower safety limit of the battery pack. When I'm zipping around in heavy traffic - I've "floored" the accelerator pedal; and the car just goes. My understanding is that the 2023 has much more power; both electrical motor and larger displacement ICE.
I had a 2012 Prius C; there's no way to pass or slide into a tight space in rush hour traffic - it had to be timed. My 2021 Prime behaves like a small displacement ICE car - power when you need it - NOT like a giant V8 engine though or a full EV.

 

That's only in North America. Elsewhere, their EV mode is the NA EV Auto. The Prius has a more powerful motor, so it can still stay in EV when the Niro kicks on the ICE. That just uses up charge faster though.

Hyundai and Kia quality has come a long way over the decades.

The Ioniq and Elantra hybrids can best the Prius. Multispeed automatics, step or DCT, can have overdrive gear ratios better than a CVT's for steady speeds, and engines in the H/K hybrids are as thermally efficient as the one in the Prius.

What $3,500 price difference? The Niro PHEV MSRP starts at $33,840, and Prius Prime at $32,350.

How does it behave when driving in EV Auto? That is how the Italian PP will behave when in EV mode.

Europe does not get a full time EV mode. Both their EV and EV City modes will fire up the engine sooner than the US EV mode.

 

I don't own either cars, so I can only go by the OEM specs.
2023 Kia Niro PHEV | Crossover SUV - Pricing & Features | Kia ; 49-53 combined
https://www.toyota.com/prius/features/mpg_other_price/1223/1225/1227 ; 57 combined

The $3K price difference is the as tested price published in the video.

The car starts out in EV auto unless over-ridden; software will fire ICE to protect the battery and won't allow EV mode, if it's too low.

 

i much prefer the crossover suv style, but would have to compare hatch space in person

how can niro have twice as many cubic feet with seats folded?

 

You've quoted the Prius LE mpg there. The Prius Prime SE combined is 52mpg, and the higher trims 48mpg.
https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/features/mpg_other_price/1235/1237/1239

The video prices were base Prius Prime to top trim Niro PHEV.

The rear seats of the Niro have about 3 inches more headroom and 4 inches of legroom. Without the sloped roof, dropping the seats adds a lot more cargo space. Toyota doesn't even publish a value for seats down. The one source I saw said it is just 7 cubic feet more.

Seats up, the Niro cargo space is about that of the Prius, but it is likely more vertical. The Prius might have more usable space with the seats up.

 

If they would let KIA fire up the engine while testing EV range, it would not make sense.
As it come to hybrid reliability KIA/Hyundai is nowhere near Toyota or even Honda for that matter.

To other topics mentioned here, I was never able to fire up the engine in EV city mode (even in power mode and pedal on the floor).

 

Thanks, I’m sorry to hear that

 

Oh, I see... So, Edmunds cheated then. This shows how nonsense their testing is. ICE kicking in during the BEV range tests is no different than that runner woman who got a car ride during her run in the news recently. LOL

 

No different than the PiP, gen4 Prime, and likely gen5 one using gas during the EV EPA testing.

 

?? That makes no sense whatsoever. Gen 4 Prius Prime does not use gas during the EPA BEV testing. Neither does Gen 5 Prius Prime.

In Gen 4 Prius Prime, the ICE does not kick in in the EV mode unless the speed is more than 84 mph. Gen 5 Prius Prime can even do higher speeds.

In Gen 4 Prius Prime, the only times the ICE would kick in would be using the front defogger in certain conditions. Or it could kick in if using the EV-auto mode, which automatically selects between the EV and HV modes.

Kia Niro PHEV is obviously a poor man's PHEV if ICE is kicking in during BEV driving. I would hate a cold ICE briefly turning on on the freeway at high rpms, which is not good for the ICE. But then Hyundai and Kia are still poor in reliability—not much has changed since the 1980s and 1990s.