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Which $7,500 is better?

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2023.

?

Which price decrease is most desirable?

Poll closed May 18, 2023.

  1. $7,500 - Federal subsidy both car and battery

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%

  2. $7,500 - Federal subsidy for car and LiFePO battery cost reduction

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%

  3. I won't buy an EV

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    LiFePO batteries are less expensive than NMC batteries. But battery material source is about 50% of the Federal discount. So which would you prefer and why?

    I prefer price reductions by changing to a cheaper battery because the battery savings can be applied world wide. So it works for Canadian, Latin America, Europe, Asian, and African buyers. Equally important is a political decision on subsidies can be reversed by a single election. Taking that tool away from the politicians is like taking guns away from the foolish ... a good idea.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2023
  2. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I would prefer a straightforward well though out and managed rebated system rather than anything connected with tax liabilities which in effect limits who can access the incentives.

    A system much like how utilities do the Heat Pump Hot Water rebate. - buy the Heat Pump - submit the paperwork on its efficiency rating with the sales receipt - they send you the rebate incentive check.

    As we are finding out with the discussions - the exceptions, implementation dates, income qualifications, tax liabilities, income tax forms, necessary tax liabilities, manufacturing qualifications, tracking, loopholes, Federal Bureaucracy ineptitude and general Government political involvement almost make the Federal Incentives a non starter.

    I still remember what I had to go through to generate a Federal Tax Liability when I bought our PHEV to claim the Federal Tax Incentive - just nonsense. Many retired people who no longer work will not have a current tax liability even though they have paid substantial taxes over the years. There are many similar situations.
     
    #2 John321, Apr 18, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2023
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I like the idea of submitting proof of purchase or copy of registration and getting a rebate check ... no questions asked. But I would prefer a well documented, universally applied, expiration to the subsidy program. A long subsidy rewards the stupid and inefficient.

    More important, I would like to see a charging subsidy for homes, apartments, and employers. Given the backlog of need, a longer and generous installation cost. Also, encouragement for time-of-day billing to promote a more constant load on the grid. It should support whatever plugs are being sold such as dual, CCS-1 and Tesla. CHAdeMO is negotiable but should be in proportion to the population. Finally, tailored to support maintenance (aka., if you've ever used a public restroom, you know what I mean.)

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2023
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Pretty sure there is a charging subsidy back in place.

    The original subsidy in Japan for EVs and hybrids was a direct one to the manufacturer for each sale. With the independent dealer model in the US, it may not work. Rebates would open up the incentive to more of the population, but aren't pain free to implement. The state rebate I got for the Prius counted as income on that year's federal taxes for instance.

    A cost reduction from tech or material improvement will get applied regardless of government incentive. As long as those incentives are tech neutral. LFP doesn't work for all applications. There is also potential issues with a globally used product that's production is limited to one country.
     
    #4 Trollbait, Apr 18, 2023
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think the biden has done a reasonable job thinking this all through
     
    #5 bisco, Apr 18, 2023
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Re: survey...I am not in market for EV, but PHEV is a poss
     
    #6 wjtracy, Apr 18, 2023
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Are PHEVs excluding from the current incentive?
     
    #7 Trollbait, Apr 18, 2023
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The top $7500: Credits for New Clean Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After | Internal Revenue Service

    Source_2: https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

    Federal Tax Credits for Plug-in Electric and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After
    (Vehicle placed into service on or after after April 18, 2023)

    Code:
    Make    Model    Credit Amount    MSRP Limit[/B][/B]
[B]Cadillac  LYRIQ         $7,500    $80,000
Chevrolet Blazer.       $7,500    $80,000
Chevrolet Bolt.         $7,500    $55,000
Chevrolet Bolt EUV.     $7,500    $55,000
Chevrolet Equinox       $7,500    $80,000
Chevrolet Silverado     $7,500    $80,000

Chrysler Pacifica       $7,500    $80,000

Ford F150               $7,500    $80,000
Ford F150_Standard      $7,500    $80,000

Lincoln Aviator         $7,500    $80,000

Tesla Model 3 Perf      $7,500    $55,000
Tesla Model Y           $7,500    $80,000
Tesla Model Y Long      $7,500    $80,000
Tesla Model Y Perf      $7,500    $80,000[/B][/FONT]
    ​

    Source: Internal Revenue Service
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2023
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Escape, Corsair, and Jeep 4xe PHEVs also qualify for the $3750 credit.

    I remember there being a minimum battery capacity to the credit that might disqualify a PHEV, though that could have been from earlier versions of the bill.
     
    #9 Trollbait, Apr 18, 2023
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