1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Crown Estate, Crown Sedan, and Crown Sport Specs Released

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Apr 12, 2023.

  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    2024 Toyota Crown Sport, Sedan, Estate First Details Released

    Although the specifications have been released for the future Crowns, and Toyota announced they will be sold in 40 countries, no one is sure if North America.

    Measurements Crown Sedan Crown Estate Crown Sport
    1
    2 Length 198 in (5030 mm) 194 in (4930 mm) 185.4 in (4710 mm)
    3
    4 Width 74.4 in (1890 mm) 74 in (1880 mm) 74 in (1880 mm)
    5
    6 Height 57.9 in (1470 mm) 63.8 in (1620 mm) 61.4 in (1560 mm)
    7
    8 Wheelbase 118.1 in (3000 mm) 112.2 in (2850 mm) 109 in (2770 mm)
    9 Comparison About the same size as the Crown Crossover but slightly longer and much wider About the same size as the Highlander but slightly less width and shorter About the same size as the Venza but with a much longer wheelbase


    All in all these are really wide, low vehicles and have really long wheelbases for their size comparison. The Estate looks like it'll have 3 rows from the video, but at only 63.8 inches high its lower than the Corolla Cross. About the only SUV/Crossover that both the Estate and Sport beat in in height in the entire 2023 lineup are the Lexus UX and Toyota Crown Crossover.
     
  2. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    More info from spyder7 website:
    https://spyder7.com/article/2023/04/15/17644.html

    Partial translation:
    "In July last year, Toyota unveiled four new models of the 16th generation Crown for the first time in the world. In the autumn of the same year, sales of the "Crown Crossover" began as the first product. This time, we have released additional information on the three new crowns, "Sport", "Sedan" and "Estate".

    The Crown Sport is a new type of sports SUV with an emotional and creative atmosphere, a package that is easy to get in and out of and driving, and an agile and sporty driving experience. The body size is 4710mm long x 1880mm wide x 1560mm high with a wheelbase of 2770mm. The tire size is 21 inches. A HEV-equipped model with only 4WD is scheduled to be released around the fall of 2023, and a PHEV-equipped model around the winter of 2023.

    The Crown Sedan is a new formal sedan that responds to personal and business needs, such as high-quality driving and comfortable ride, and a relaxing rear seat space that meets the needs of chauffeurs. The body size is 5030mm long x 1890mm wide x 1470mm high with a wheelbase of 3000mm. Tire sizes are 19 or 20 inches. An HEV-equipped model with FR only is scheduled to be released around the fall of 2023, and a FC (fuel cell) EV-equipped model will be released around the winter of 2023.

    The Crown Estate is a new crown that fuses a wagon and an SUV at a high level and combines sophistication with a mature atmosphere. Enjoy an active life with the fully flat deck in the rear seat. The body size is 4930mm long x 1880mm wide x 1620mm high with a wheelbase of 2850mm. The tire size is 21 inches. A HEV-equipped model and a PHEV-equipped model are scheduled to be released in 2024 with a 4WD-only setting.

    Each has a seating capacity of 5 people. Each numerical value is a development target value and may be changed."

    I was wrong on the Estate, I thought it was 3 seater from the video posted on Motor1. Its gonna have a large cargo area if not 3 seats. So 2 out of the 3 will have a PHEV powertrain as well as hybrid. Maybe those 2 models will be destined for Europe eventually.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Ohh. I thought the Crown Estate might compete with the CX-90 PHEV.
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I'm kind of down on the Estate. I was hoping for a real wagon but those d-pillars are pushed in and forward very far, limiting the rear storage by a lot. I'm not going to write it off as 'more crossover noise' yet, but the measurements and spy photos aren't encouraging.

    On the other hand the Sedan reads like a winner. I'm enthusiastic about that car. (y)
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Although the Estate will be have a PHEV powertrain along with the Sport, it's almost the exact same height as my wife's old 2011 Venza wagon. Everybody who owned the old Venza loved it and were upset when Toyota cancelled it. We went to a lot of dealers and they all said the same thing. But 3 rows in the old Venza, wow that would be difficult to get to the 3rd row. It was already a lifted Camry wagon with an 8.1 in (206 mm) ground clearance so maybe on your hands and knees. When I saw the Estate specs I was wondering if the Estate is the old Venza replacement so maybe it'll hit the North American market. The Estate is much longer and has a much longer wheelbase so I'm pretty sure it'll ride much better than her old Venza, which I thought was terrible.

    The only model to be hybrid or fuel cell. Pretty sure there won't be a gas only model. Also it'll be front wheel drive only.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I'm hopeful they'll announce a PHEV version later. Totally ok with FWD.

    The look and shape of the Estate isn't a total deal killer. But linking the PHEV to AWD means it's going to be dragging a bunch of extra baggage in terms of weight and window-sticker. I really like the lightness, ride and economy we gained when we shifted from an AWD wagon to an FWD sedan.
     
    Isaac Zachary and drash like this.
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Are they still Japan only?
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  8. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,986
    932
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    If there were only a Camry Estate/Wagon sold in the USA... I might go buy one right now. Put in a manual transmission and I'd buy one right now! Make a plug-in hybrid, FWD, manual transmission wagon, be it Crown, Avalon, Camry, Corolla or Yaris, and I'd sell a kidney to get it!!! Toyota!!! Are you listening!!!

    (Me, the only person in the world that thinks this way.)
     
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I'd think all the extra switches, ECU logic and safeties needed to make a manual transmission work in a PHEV would make it less reliable than the auto.

    So now it's less reliable, probably gets worse MPG... maybe make the shifter knob out of hand-worked titanium so the option can cost more too? Then you'd have the hat trick. Hang on I think that's Stellantis on the other line...
     
    drash likes this.
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    A manual HSD simply isn't possible. In a parallel hybrid, it could work. Many a EV conversion was a motor mated to the factory manual. Getting it working in hybrid mode is probably the hard part. The OG Insight had a manual option. It was a mild hybrid though, without the additional clutches full parallel hybrids have today. Honda also discontinued it because too much control to the driver lead to 'lugging' the battery. Discharging it too much, and adding to the general battery life woes Honda hybrids were seeing at the time.
     
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I don't mean to make too much of a tangent, but couldn't you (theoretically) put the human-operated clutch between MG2 and the differential? Couldn't that lead to an arrangement where the human shifts the final drive ratio? I mean it wouldn't make any sense really, other than to say you have a shiftable HSD, but there you have it.

    Coming up next: power assisted windows! They still have big hand cranks that you have to spin 12 times, but now there's a motor in there that senses your motion and takes up some of the load. Not as boring as full power windows!

    --

    Back towards the thread, I love the idea of the Crown Sedan in PHEV FWD form. It seems conspicuously missing from the lineup.

    Conjecture?
     
    Trollbait and drash like this.
  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Lexus has something like that with their paddle shifters on almost all their HSD hybrids and you can mimic that by using S on the shifter. However, they more or less mimic that by adjusting the amount of engine braking and regeneration when downshifting. Haven't used it enough to evaluate it for acceleration, but I believe the ECU takes over after reaching a certain speed.

    Well, personally I was thinking this might spell the end of the Mirai, particularly if it comes to the NA market. Those 2 models seem to be in the same market - expensive FCEV sedans. They would have to correct their TNGA-K platforms to utilize exchanging the fuel cell tanks for batteries. Maybe sometime in the future when they see how well their Crown models sell, they may toss that idea around. Currently they seem to think its either one or the other and it might have something to do with offering AWD with the PHEV.

    More information from Toyota Global that confirms the earlier scoops:
    New Information on Three New Crown Models | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

    And yep the Estate is definitely a 5 seater, just like the old Venza. Man is that gonna have a massive cargo space in the back. Probably have enough room for a spare eh @Mendel Leisk ?
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  13. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,986
    932
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, I know that a manual transmission in a Toyota hybrid makes zero sense. I just find cars without a manual transmission to be boring, that's all.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I'm going to assume people that want shiftable, want to be able to pick a defined gear ratio among a set. There is also already a shiftable clutch at the differential called N.
    I see two possible reasons for its lack.

    The first is that in being a true sedan, there simply isn't enough space for a PHEV system without obvious space loss elsewhere. This could be why there isn't an AWD option. Though the plan for a FECV version says Toyota isn't actually worried about this.

    The second is that the PHEV versions are more for power, and a rear motor to draw addition power from the traction pack yields more impressive numbers. The EV charging situation in Japan, also means plug ins are less about financial economy.

    What of the crossover type's plans in Japan? Any PHEV or FCEV, or is it an export only version?
    Toyota hybrids of a traditional model also have it, if the ICE model had a shifter with the S mode. I think of it as 'Degrees of B'. The Camry hybrid manual says the car will hold higher engine rpms with lower 'gears' selected while accelerating. Didn't go around accelerating in B when I had the Prius, so I can't say if that is different.
    I'm guessing the Mirai is going to be cancelled. It's low volume, so making their FCEV sedan from an existing model should save Toyota on costs. If planning on staying with a non-FCEV platform.
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Guess you’ll have to wait for Lexus to unveil a manual transmission EV. Toyota is working on one.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    What Toyota had in the Lexus concept was a virtual shifter, like the simulated gears on a CVT. For driving enjoyment, it'll probably work, but it isn't a real multispeed manual. Dodge might be the first to sell that.
     
    Tideland Prius and Isaac Zachary like this.
  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I agree with this. If it's big enough for all the hydrogen wonderguts, it's big enough to sneak a charger in there somewhere.
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It probably has more to do with expect sales demographics and battery supply.
    From what we've seen of the Rav4 and new Prius Prime, Toyota is moving their PHEVs to performance improvements over the ICE and hybrid models. Something not as important to the typical Crown Sedan buyer. Plus, they may not have the supply to offer a PHEV for all at this time. The Rav4P has been out for what, 2 or 3 years, and still is hard to come by in places.